| Notes |
- Some background information concerning Peter FitzReginald and Alice Broadspear.
Herbert FitzPeter was the son of Peter FitzReginald who married Alice Broadspear. They are documented as follows.
A Genealogical History of the Dormant, Abeyant, Forfeited, and Extinct Peerages of the British Empire makes the following comments concerning Peter FitzReginald: "The house of Herbert deduces descent from Peter Fitzreginald, brother of John Fitzreginald, summoned to parliament as a baron, 1294-1307,...derived from Herbert Fitzherbert, son of Herbert, Chamberlain to William Rufus, and grandson of Peter, stated to have been brother of Herbert, Count of Vermandois, and son of Otho, Count of Vermandois, 7th in descent, through the Counts of Vermandois and Kings of Italy and Lombardy, from Pepin, King of Italy and Lombardy, who d. A.D. 810, youngest son of Charlemagne, Emperor of the West. Peter Fitzreginald, b. in 1275, had a grant from his mother, Joan, dau. and co-heir of William de Vivonia (de Fortibus) of the manor of Chewyton or Chuton, Co. Somerset, of which he’d. seized in 1323, set. forty-eight years. He m. Alice, dau. and heir of Blethin Broadspear, Lord of Llanllowel, near Uske, in Monmouthshire, and had issue, I. Roger Fitzpeter, who d. in his father's lifetime, leaving a son and heir, Sir Henry Fitzroger, whose grand-dau. and heir m. John Bonville. II. Herbert Fitzpeter."
The "Family of Herbert" in Archaeologia Cambrensis states the following: "...this Peter Fitz-Reginald had, from his mother, a grant of the Lordship of Chewton, Co. Somerset; of which manor, with that of Hinton Mayne, etc., he died seised in the year 1323, as appears by Inquisition. By his wife Alice, daughter and heir of Bleddyn (usually called Bleddyn Broadspear), Lord of Llanllowel, Co. Monmouth, Peter had two sons, Herbert and Roger. Of the latter, we only know that he left a son Henry Fitz-Roger, a minor in 1327."
The Annuals and Antiquities of the Counties and County Families of Wales states: "Peter, son of Reginald, b. in 1275, m. Alice, dau. and h. of Bleiddian (or Bleddyn) Broadspear, Lord of Llanllywel, near Usk (Wysg), in Gwent. He died in 1323."
The above records place Peter's birth in 1275 and his death in 1323 at the age of 48. However, the book "John Pidding Jones: His Ancestors and Descendants" lists Peter FitzReginald's birth as about 1240. Both of these birth dates create something of a problem. The date 1275 appears to be much too late inasmuch as one of Peter's great grandsons (John ap Adam) reportedly died at the beginning of the reign of King Edward II [about 1307/1308], leaving a wife and son. A Genealogical and Heraldic History of the Landed Gentry of Great Britain and Ireland, speaking of John Ap Adam, states: "He was in the wars of Scotland, temp, Edward I, and died in the beginning of Edward II, leaving by Elizabeth his wife, the daughter and heir of John de Gourns, baron of Beverston, in the county of Gloucester, a son, Thomas Ap John, lord of Llanllowell who being of age in 1325 had livery of his lands..." Thus Thomas ap John, a great great grandson, had to have been born in or before 1307-08. Calculating back about 20/25 years from John ap Adam's death (1307/08), he was likely born about 1282-87, and his father, Adam FitzHerbert, some 20/25 years before that in about 1262-67, and his father, Herbert FitzPeter, some 20/25 years before that in about 1242-47. That would likely make Peter's birth closer to 1222-27. The "Family of Herbert" in Archaeologia Cambrensis states that "Herbert, the eldest son of Peter Fitz-Reginald, was forty-eight years old and upwards when his father died, in 1323..." That would indicate that Herbert, son of Peter, was the one who was 48 years of age or older when Peter died in 1323, and that would make Herbert's date of birth 1275 or earlier (not Peter's). Calculating Peter's date of birth from the opposite direction, it is noted that his grandfather, Peter FitzHerbert was born 1163 and died 1235. His father, Reginald FitzPeter, was born about 1195/1200 and died 1286. Again that puts Peter's birth likely around 1225.
Whatever Peter's actual date of birth is, it most certainly cannot be in 1275, and some 50 years earlier (1225) would appear to be more logical. However, that would make Peter almost 100 years old in 1323 when he reportedly died. Thus, there is a problem with these dates for Peter that likely will not be easily resolved.
Peter FitzReginald was the son of Reginald FitzPeter who married Joan de Vivonia (also named Joan de Fortibus).
A pedigree published in Collections Historical & Archaeological Relating to Montgomeryshire, Vol. V, pages 158-159, documents the first eleven generations of the John Pidding Jones line in England and Wales following the conquest of England by William the Conqueror in 1066. An explanation of that pedigree follows. It begins with Herbert [Herbertus Camerarius]; followed by his son Henry FitzHerbert [Henrici Tresaurij]; followed by his son Herbert FitzHenry [Herbert FitzHerbert I or Herbert of Winchester]; followed by his son Herbert FitzHerbert [Herbert FitzHerbert II]; followed by his son Peter FitzHerbert; followed by his son Reginald FitzPeter; followed by his son Peter FitzReginald; followed by his son Herbert FitzPeter, Lord of Llanllowel; followed by his son Adam FitzHerbert, Lord of Llanllowel; followed in the so-called “B” line by his son Jenkin ab Adam [Jenkin ab Adam, alias Herbert]; followed by his son Gwillim ab Jenkin [Gwillim ab Jenkin, alias Herbert]; followed by his son Thomas ab Gwillim [Thomas ab Gwillim ab Jenkin, alias Herbert]. It is noted that Thomas ab Gwillim was the fourth son of Gwillim ab Jenkin. The John Pidding Jones line descends from Gwillim ab Jenkin through Howell ab Gwillim, the third son of Gwillim ab Jenkin. Thus, the pedigree does not follow the John Pidding Jones line after Gwillim ab Jenkin [son: Howell ab Gwillim], but rather the line of Thomas ab Gwillim.
See also the "Revised History of John Pidding Jones and Margaret Lee Jones" (published 2015 by Michael Norman Grimshaw, Ph.D.), pages 58-60.
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1228 - Abt 1315 (87 years)
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