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Multics vs Unix [message #425868]

Tue, 17 December 2024 15:41

Anonymous

Karma:

Originally posted by: Lawrence D'Oliveiro

I was reading the introductory “Multics Concepts and Utilization” book
< http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/honeywell/large_syste ms/multics/F01_multicsIntroCourseOct78.pdf>
over at Bitsavers. Multics (the “MULTiplexed Information and Computing
Service”) was, for its time, an extremely ambitious operating system
project. It was first introduced in 1965, in the form of a series of
papers at the AFIPS Fall Joint Computer Conference of that year
< https://www.computer.org/csdl/proceedings/1965/afips/12OmNzS h1au>.

Of course, it took far too long (7 years) to reach production quality.
In that time, a small group of researchers at AT&T Bell Labs grew
tired of waiting, and decided to create their own, less ambitious
system, which they called “UNIX” as a tongue-in-cheek homage to
“Multics”. And the rest, as they say, is history.

But, nevertheless, Multics remained an influential system. There are
even some present-day fans of it gathered at
<https://multicians.org/>. Apparently they have got the OS booting on
an emulator of the original GE 645 hardware. Though it was mostly
written in a high-level language (PL/I), Multics was never a portable
OS; to support its advanced virtual-memory and security features, it
required special processor hardware support which was not common in
those days.

Even today, Multics has some features which can be considered
innovative and uncommon. It may be true that, for example, SELinux can
match all of its security capabilities and more. But some aspects of
its file-protection system seem, to me, to make sharing of data
between users a bit easier than your typical Linux/POSIX-type system.

For a start, there seems to be no concept of file “ownership” as such.
Or even of POSIX-style file protection modes (read/write/execute for
owner/group/world). Instead, all file and directory access is
controlled via access-control lists (ACLs). Directories have a
permission called “modify”, which effectively gives a matching entity
(user, group, process) owner-type rights over that directory; except
that more than one entity can have that permission at once. Thus, a
group of users working on a common project can all be given this
“modify” access to a shared directory for that project, allowing them
all to put data there, read it back again, control access to it,
delete it etc on a completely equal basis. Contrast this with
POSIX/Linux, where every file has to have exactly one owner; even if
they create that file in a shared directory, it still gives the
creating user a special status over that file, that others with write
access to the containing directory do not have.

(Multics also offers a separate “append” permission, that allows the
possessor to create an item in a directory, without having the ability
to remove an item once it’s there.)

One radical idea introduced in Unix was its profligate use of multiple
processes. Every new command you executed (except for the ones built
into the shell) required the creation of a new process, often several
processes. Other OSes tended to look askance at this; it seemed
somehow wasteful, perhaps even sinful to spawn so many processes so
readily and discard them so casually. The more conventional approach
was to create a single process at user login, and execute nearly all
commands within the context of that. There were special commands for
explicitly creating additional processes (e.g. for background command
execution), but such process creation did not simply happen as a
matter of course.

Gradually, over time, the limitations of the single-process approach
became too much to ignore, and the versatility of the Unix approach
won over (nearly) everybody. Multics, however, is of the old school.
More than that, the process even preserves global state, including
static storage, in-between runs of programs, and this applies across
different programs, not just reruns of the same one. For example, in
FORTRAN, there is the concept of a “common block”. If you run two
different programs that both refer to the same common block, then the
second one will see values left in the block by the first one. To
completely reinitialize everything, you need to invoke the “new_proc”
command, which effectively deletes your process and gives you a fresh
one.

One common irritation I find on POSIX/Linux systems is the convention
that every directory has to have an entry called “.”, pointing to
itself, and one called “..”, pointing to its parent. This way these
names can be used in relative pathnames to reach any point in the
directory hierarchy. But surely it is unnecessary to have explicit
entries for these names cluttering up every directory; why not just
build their recognition as a special case into the pathname-parsing
logic in the kernel, once and for all? That way, directory-traversal
routines in user programs don’t have to be specially coded to look
for, and skip these entries, every single time.

Multics doesn’t seem to have this problem. An absolute pathname begins
with “>” (which is the separator for pathname components, equivalent
to POSIX “/”), while a relative pathname doesn’t. Furthermore, a
relative pathname can begin with one or more “<” characters,
indicating the corresponding number of steps up from the current
working directory. Unlike POSIX “..”, you can’t have “<” characters in
the middle of the pathname, which is probably not a big loss.

It is interesting to see other features which are nearly, but not
quite, the same as, corresponding features in Unix. For example, there
is a search path for executables, to save you typing the entire
pathname to run the program. However, this does not seem as flexible
as the $PATH environment-variable convention observed by Unix/POSIX
shells. In particular, it does not seem possible to remove the current
directory from the search path, which we now know can be a security
risk.

Another one is the concept of “active functions” and “active strings”.
These allow you to perform substitutions of dynamically-computed
values into a command line. However, they are not as general as the
Unix/POSIX concept of “command substitution”, where an entire shell
command can supply its output to be interpolated into another command.
Instead of having a completely separate vocabulary of “active
functions” which can only be used for such substitutions, Unix/POSIX
unifies this with the standard set of commands, any of which can be
used in this way.

There are other features of Multics that others more familiar with it
might want to see mentioned (the single-level store concept, where
“everything is a memory segment”, versus Unix “everything is a file”?
I/O redirection based on “switches”—symbolic references to files,
versus Unix integer “file descriptors”?). But then, this long-winded
essay would become even longer-winded :). So if you are interested in
this particular piece of computing history, feel free to follow up the
links above.

In summary, Multics is very much a museum piece, not something you
would want to use today for regular work—not in its original form. But
I think there are still one or two ideas there that we could usefully
copy and adapt to a present-day OS, particularly a versatile one like
Linux.

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[Message index]

		Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Tue, 17 December 2024 15:41
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Tue, 17 December 2024 20:13
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Tue, 17 December 2024 20:20
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Niklas Karlsson on Thu, 19 December 2024 00:22
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Thu, 19 December 2024 02:11
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Niklas Karlsson on Thu, 19 December 2024 04:41
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Thu, 19 December 2024 14:48
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: scott on Thu, 19 December 2024 08:47
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Niklas Karlsson on Thu, 19 December 2024 09:13
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: scott on Thu, 19 December 2024 09:47
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: cross on Thu, 19 December 2024 10:04
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Thu, 19 December 2024 16:56
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Thu, 19 December 2024 10:03
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Wed, 18 December 2024 08:04
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Rich Alderson on Wed, 18 December 2024 18:26
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: cross on Thu, 19 December 2024 07:28
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Mon, 23 December 2024 13:20
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Mon, 23 December 2024 15:16
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Mon, 23 December 2024 16:54
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Peter Flass on Mon, 23 December 2024 19:35
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Mon, 23 December 2024 21:22
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Mon, 23 December 2024 21:57
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Anne & Lynn Wheel on Mon, 23 December 2024 22:44
		Re: CP/67 Multics vs Unix By: John Levine on Mon, 23 December 2024 23:07
		Re: CP/67 Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Tue, 24 December 2024 00:48
		Re: CP/67 Multics vs Unix By: Peter Flass on Tue, 24 December 2024 08:50
		Re: CP/67 Multics vs Unix By: Anne & Lynn Wheel on Tue, 24 December 2024 03:06
		Re: CP/67 Multics vs Unix By: Anne & Lynn Wheel on Tue, 24 December 2024 13:40
		Re: CP/67 Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Tue, 24 December 2024 15:52
		Re: CP/67 Multics vs Unix By: Peter Flass on Wed, 25 December 2024 20:14
		Re: CP/67 Multics vs Unix By: Anne & Lynn Wheel on Thu, 26 December 2024 14:55
		Re: CP/67 Multics vs Unix By: scott on Fri, 27 December 2024 12:35
		Re: CP/67 Multics vs Unix By: Anne & Lynn Wheel on Tue, 24 December 2024 18:49
		Re: CP/67 Multics vs Unix By: Anne & Lynn Wheel on Fri, 27 December 2024 14:35
		Re: CP/67 Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Sat, 28 December 2024 18:25
		Re: CP/67 Multics vs Unix By: Anne & Lynn Wheel on Sat, 28 December 2024 22:04
		Re: CP/67 Multics vs Unix By: cb on Sun, 29 December 2024 05:28
		Re: CP/67 Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Sun, 29 December 2024 16:17
		Re: CP/67 Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Sun, 29 December 2024 10:56
		Re: CP/67 Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Sun, 29 December 2024 16:39
		Re: CP/67 Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Sun, 29 December 2024 18:50
		Re: CP/67 Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Mon, 30 December 2024 02:19
		Re: CP/67 Multics vs Unix By: Peter Flass on Mon, 30 December 2024 14:03
		Re: CP/67 Multics vs Unix By: Peter Flass on Mon, 30 December 2024 14:03
		Re: CP/67 Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Mon, 30 December 2024 22:10
		Re: CP/67 Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Mon, 30 December 2024 22:51
		Re: CP/67 Multics vs Unix By: Alexander Schreiber on Tue, 31 December 2024 07:51
		Re: CP/67 Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Tue, 31 December 2024 13:06
		Re: CP/67 Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Wed, 01 January 2025 12:51
		Re: CP/67 Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Wed, 01 January 2025 13:46
		Re: CP/67 Multics vs Unix By: Alexander Schreiber on Thu, 02 January 2025 09:50
		Re: CP/67 Multics vs Unix By: Peter Flass on Tue, 31 December 2024 14:08
		Re: CP/67 Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Tue, 31 December 2024 17:13
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Tue, 21 January 2025 20:17
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Tue, 21 January 2025 21:05
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Wed, 22 January 2025 05:58
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: cross on Wed, 22 January 2025 08:59
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: scott on Wed, 22 January 2025 10:06
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Wed, 22 January 2025 22:54
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Anne & Lynn Wheel on Wed, 22 January 2025 23:30
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Thu, 23 January 2025 00:40
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Anne & Lynn Wheel on Thu, 23 January 2025 13:34
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Peter Flass on Thu, 23 January 2025 14:07
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Rich Alderson on Sat, 25 January 2025 19:23
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: cross on Sat, 25 January 2025 21:43
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: John Levine on Sun, 26 January 2025 16:02
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Sun, 26 January 2025 16:33
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Anne & Lynn Wheel on Sun, 26 January 2025 17:24
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Mon, 27 January 2025 02:59
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: cross on Mon, 27 January 2025 07:28
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Mon, 27 January 2025 07:44
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: cross on Mon, 27 January 2025 08:07
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Mon, 27 January 2025 16:33
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Mon, 27 January 2025 16:38
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: cross on Mon, 27 January 2025 21:10
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Anne & Lynn Wheel on Mon, 27 January 2025 12:30
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Anne & Lynn Wheel on Mon, 27 January 2025 12:09
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: cross on Mon, 27 January 2025 16:29
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Mon, 27 January 2025 18:04
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Anne & Lynn Wheel on Mon, 27 January 2025 19:27
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Anne & Lynn Wheel on Mon, 27 January 2025 20:21
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Peter Flass on Tue, 28 January 2025 18:45
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Tue, 28 January 2025 20:13
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Peter Flass on Thu, 30 January 2025 13:33
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: John Levine on Thu, 30 January 2025 14:45
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Thu, 30 January 2025 17:20
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: scott on Thu, 30 January 2025 19:22
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Peter Flass on Sat, 01 February 2025 14:08
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Sat, 01 February 2025 20:09
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: cross on Thu, 30 January 2025 17:12
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Thu, 30 January 2025 17:21
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Dan Espen on Thu, 30 January 2025 19:43
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Fri, 31 January 2025 01:30
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Dan Espen on Fri, 31 January 2025 10:24
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: scott on Fri, 31 January 2025 10:30
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Dan Espen on Fri, 31 January 2025 11:29
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Fri, 31 January 2025 12:58
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix vs mainframes By: John Levine on Fri, 31 January 2025 13:48
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix vs mainframes By: Anne & Lynn Wheel on Fri, 31 January 2025 13:53
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix vs mainframes By: John Levine on Fri, 31 January 2025 15:00
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix vs mainframes By: Anne & Lynn Wheel on Fri, 31 January 2025 17:59
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix vs mainframes By: John Levine on Fri, 31 January 2025 20:31
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix vs mainframes By: Anne & Lynn Wheel on Fri, 31 January 2025 22:38
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix vs mainframes By: Anne & Lynn Wheel on Sun, 02 February 2025 17:55
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix vs mainframes By: Anonymous on Sat, 01 February 2025 11:59
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix vs mainframes By: scott on Sat, 01 February 2025 13:35
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix vs mainframes By: Anonymous on Sat, 01 February 2025 20:20
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix vs mainframes By: jgd on Sun, 02 February 2025 10:43
		Re: how to run fast, old pharts, Multics vs Unix vs mainframes By: John Levine on Sun, 02 February 2025 16:00
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix vs mainframes By: Anonymous on Tue, 04 February 2025 18:09
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix vs mainframes By: cross on Fri, 31 January 2025 14:10
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix vs mainframes By: Anonymous on Fri, 31 January 2025 16:28
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix vs mainframes By: jgd on Sat, 01 February 2025 14:55
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix vs mainframes By: Anonymous on Sun, 02 February 2025 14:04
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix vs mainframes By: Peter Flass on Sat, 01 February 2025 14:08
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix vs mainframes By: Anonymous on Sat, 01 February 2025 19:58
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix vs mainframes By: Anonymous on Sun, 02 February 2025 07:28
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix vs mainframes By: Harry Vaderchi on Sun, 02 February 2025 13:04
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix vs mainframes By: scott on Sun, 02 February 2025 13:23
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix vs mainframes By: Dan Espen on Sun, 02 February 2025 16:12
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix vs mainframes By: Peter Flass on Sun, 02 February 2025 16:42
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix vs mainframes By: scott on Mon, 03 February 2025 08:55
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix vs mainframes By: Rich Alderson on Mon, 03 February 2025 16:40
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix vs mainframes By: scott on Mon, 03 February 2025 17:53
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix vs mainframes By: Bob Martin on Tue, 04 February 2025 02:13
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix vs mainframes By: Harry Vaderchi on Tue, 04 February 2025 08:47
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix vs mainframes By: Bob Martin on Wed, 05 February 2025 00:55
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix vs mainframes By: Harry Vaderchi on Wed, 05 February 2025 13:56
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix vs mainframes By: Charlie Gibbs on Sun, 02 February 2025 17:36
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix vs mainframes By: Dan Espen on Mon, 03 February 2025 11:39
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix vs mainframes By: scott on Mon, 03 February 2025 13:00
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix vs mainframes By: Dan Espen on Mon, 03 February 2025 17:21
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix vs mainframes By: scott on Mon, 03 February 2025 18:08
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix vs mainframes By: Dan Espen on Mon, 03 February 2025 18:50
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix vs mainframes By: scott on Mon, 03 February 2025 19:09
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix vs mainframes By: Charlie Gibbs on Mon, 03 February 2025 19:36
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix vs mainframes By: Dan Espen on Tue, 04 February 2025 11:08
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix vs mainframes By: Anonymous on Mon, 03 February 2025 20:03
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix vs mainframes By: Charlie Gibbs on Mon, 03 February 2025 20:27
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix vs mainframes By: Harry Vaderchi on Tue, 04 February 2025 08:45
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix vs mainframes By: Anonymous on Mon, 03 February 2025 13:21
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix vs mainframes By: Anonymous on Mon, 03 February 2025 19:55
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix vs mainframes By: Charlie Gibbs on Mon, 03 February 2025 20:28
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix vs mainframes By: Dan Espen on Sun, 02 February 2025 16:10
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix vs mainframes By: Anonymous on Sun, 02 February 2025 21:50
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix vs mainframes By: Charlie Gibbs on Sun, 02 February 2025 23:17
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix vs mainframes By: Anonymous on Sat, 01 February 2025 20:11
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix vs mainframes By: Anonymous on Sat, 01 February 2025 22:04
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix vs mainframes By: Anonymous on Sat, 01 February 2025 22:13
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix vs mainframes By: Anonymous on Sun, 02 February 2025 08:59
		Re: banking for old pharts, Multics vs Unix vs mainframes By: John Levine on Sun, 02 February 2025 15:51
		Re: banking for old pharts, Multics vs Unix vs mainframes By: Anonymous on Sun, 02 February 2025 21:52
		Re: banking for old pharts, Multics vs Unix vs mainframes By: scott on Mon, 03 February 2025 09:00
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Fri, 31 January 2025 16:25
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Peter Flass on Sat, 01 February 2025 14:08
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Fri, 31 January 2025 11:45
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: cross on Fri, 31 January 2025 14:11
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Fri, 31 January 2025 16:26
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Anne & Lynn Wheel on Fri, 31 January 2025 13:30
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Fri, 31 January 2025 16:26
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: John Levine on Tue, 28 January 2025 22:01
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Dan Espen on Wed, 29 January 2025 10:02
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Anne & Lynn Wheel on Wed, 29 January 2025 12:34
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Wed, 29 January 2025 13:00
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Dan Espen on Wed, 29 January 2025 16:05
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Wed, 29 January 2025 18:01
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Dan Espen on Thu, 30 January 2025 10:12
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Thu, 30 January 2025 10:56
		Unix (was: Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix) By: Anonymous on Thu, 30 January 2025 11:18
		Re: Unix (was: Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix) By: Anonymous on Thu, 30 January 2025 14:19
		Re: Unix (was: Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix) By: Anonymous on Thu, 30 January 2025 19:34
		Re: Unix By: Anonymous on Thu, 30 January 2025 15:24
		Re: Unix By: Anonymous on Thu, 30 January 2025 18:42
		Re: Unix By: Anonymous on Thu, 30 January 2025 22:17
		Re: Unix (was: Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix) By: Anonymous on Thu, 30 January 2025 19:39
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: cross on Thu, 30 January 2025 11:29
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: scott on Thu, 30 January 2025 11:48
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: cross on Thu, 30 January 2025 17:44
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Peter Flass on Thu, 30 January 2025 13:33
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: cross on Thu, 30 January 2025 17:16
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Peter Flass on Thu, 30 January 2025 13:33
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Thu, 30 January 2025 17:24
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Dan Espen on Thu, 30 January 2025 19:57
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Fri, 31 January 2025 01:31
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Anne & Lynn Wheel on Thu, 30 January 2025 11:37
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Dan Espen on Thu, 30 January 2025 16:12
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Peter Flass on Sat, 01 February 2025 14:08
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Mon, 03 February 2025 10:03
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Mon, 03 February 2025 20:05
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Mon, 03 February 2025 20:15
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: cross on Mon, 03 February 2025 20:45
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Tue, 04 February 2025 11:21
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Tue, 04 February 2025 17:58
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Mon, 03 February 2025 23:05
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Bill Findlay on Tue, 04 February 2025 12:33
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Tue, 04 February 2025 17:58
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Tue, 04 February 2025 18:35
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Thu, 06 February 2025 15:55
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix vs mainframes By: Bob Martin on Tue, 04 February 2025 02:16
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix vs mainframes By: Bill Findlay on Tue, 04 February 2025 12:36
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix vs mainframes By: cross on Wed, 05 February 2025 11:58
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix vs mainframes By: Harry Vaderchi on Wed, 05 February 2025 13:58
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix vs mainframes By: cross on Wed, 05 February 2025 14:32
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Charlie Gibbs on Mon, 03 February 2025 20:28
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Peter Flass on Tue, 04 February 2025 08:09
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Tue, 04 February 2025 09:08
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Dan Espen on Tue, 04 February 2025 11:15
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Tue, 04 February 2025 18:01
		Stress-testing of Mainframes (the HASP story) By: Anonymous on Tue, 04 February 2025 15:26
		Re: Stress-testing of Mainframes (the HASP story) By: Anonymous on Tue, 04 February 2025 18:02
		Re: Stress-testing of Mainframes (the HASP story) By: Peter Flass on Wed, 05 February 2025 17:59
		Re: Stress-testing of Mainframes (the HASP story) By: Anonymous on Wed, 05 February 2025 19:07
		Re: Stress-testing of Mainframes (the HASP story) By: cross on Wed, 05 February 2025 22:16
		Re: Stress-testing of Mainframes (the HASP story) By: Anne & Lynn Wheel on Thu, 06 February 2025 14:06
		Re: Stress-testing of Mainframes (the HASP story) By: John Levine on Wed, 05 February 2025 22:36
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Thu, 30 January 2025 17:23
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Dan Espen on Thu, 30 January 2025 19:55
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: cross on Thu, 30 January 2025 20:10
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Dan Espen on Fri, 31 January 2025 10:25
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Fri, 31 January 2025 01:33
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Fri, 31 January 2025 12:44
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Fri, 31 January 2025 16:30
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: scott on Fri, 31 January 2025 17:13
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Peter Flass on Sat, 01 February 2025 14:08
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Fri, 31 January 2025 17:26
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Sat, 01 February 2025 20:13
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Peter Flass on Sat, 01 February 2025 14:08
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Dan Espen on Sat, 01 February 2025 14:49
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Peter Flass on Sat, 01 February 2025 16:49
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Dan Espen on Sat, 01 February 2025 17:05
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: scott on Sat, 01 February 2025 17:15
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Charlie Gibbs on Sun, 02 February 2025 01:09
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Sun, 02 February 2025 07:24
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: cross on Sun, 02 February 2025 13:32
		Re: front ends, old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: John Levine on Sun, 02 February 2025 16:05
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Sun, 02 February 2025 21:57
		Wang Terminals (Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix) By: Anonymous on Sun, 02 February 2025 22:48
		Re: Wang Terminals (Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix) By: Anonymous on Mon, 03 February 2025 20:12
		Re: Wang Terminals (Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix) By: Anonymous on Mon, 03 February 2025 21:55
		Re: Wang Terminals (Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix) By: Anonymous on Tue, 04 February 2025 18:05
		Re: Wang Terminals (Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix) By: Anonymous on Sun, 09 February 2025 13:04
		Re: Wang Terminals (Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix) By: Anonymous on Sun, 09 February 2025 17:32
		Re: Wang Terminals (Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix) By: Anonymous on Sun, 09 February 2025 18:49
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: John Levine on Sat, 01 February 2025 22:21
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Sun, 02 February 2025 09:07
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Sun, 02 February 2025 21:59
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Sun, 02 February 2025 01:03
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Harry Vaderchi on Sun, 02 February 2025 12:56
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Sat, 01 February 2025 20:17
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Anne & Lynn Wheel on Sun, 26 January 2025 17:28
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Sun, 26 January 2025 18:53
		Re: old pharts, Multics vs Unix By: Anne & Lynn Wheel on Sun, 26 January 2025 19:31
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Peter Flass on Mon, 27 January 2025 17:45
		LCM+L PDP-10 systems [was Re: Multics vs Unix] By: Rich Alderson on Tue, 28 January 2025 15:53
		Re: LCM+L PDP-10 systems [was Re: Multics vs Unix] By: scott on Tue, 28 January 2025 16:05
		Re: LCM+L PDP-10 systems [was Re: Multics vs Unix] By: Rich Alderson on Wed, 29 January 2025 19:11
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Anne & Lynn Wheel on Sat, 25 January 2025 22:11
		The evolution of MMUs (was: Multics vs Unix) By: Anonymous on Sun, 26 January 2025 09:47
		Re: The evolution of MMUs (was: Multics vs Unix) By: Anonymous on Sun, 26 January 2025 16:35
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Peter Flass on Mon, 27 January 2025 17:45
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Anne & Lynn Wheel on Mon, 27 January 2025 19:55
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: cross on Wed, 22 January 2025 23:52
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Anne & Lynn Wheel on Thu, 23 January 2025 14:00
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Anne & Lynn Wheel on Thu, 23 January 2025 14:22
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Thu, 23 January 2025 19:53
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Anne & Lynn Wheel on Thu, 23 January 2025 21:19
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Fri, 24 January 2025 01:54
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Anne & Lynn Wheel on Fri, 24 January 2025 02:41
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Fri, 24 January 2025 19:16
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: scott on Fri, 24 January 2025 08:55
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Charlie Gibbs on Fri, 24 January 2025 18:57
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Bill Findlay on Fri, 24 January 2025 07:02
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Fri, 24 January 2025 09:32
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Charlie Gibbs on Fri, 24 January 2025 18:57
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Fri, 24 January 2025 19:21
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Bill Findlay on Sat, 25 January 2025 19:05
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Sat, 25 January 2025 20:53
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Bill Findlay on Sun, 26 January 2025 07:18
		The history of "multi-programming" By: Anonymous on Sun, 26 January 2025 09:33
		Re: The history of "multi-programming" By: Anonymous on Sun, 26 January 2025 16:20
		Re: The history of "multi-programming" By: Bill Findlay on Wed, 29 January 2025 08:33
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Peter Flass on Mon, 27 January 2025 17:45
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Mon, 27 January 2025 17:57
		Re: swapping, was Multics vs Unix By: John Levine on Mon, 27 January 2025 22:20
		Re: swapping, was Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Mon, 27 January 2025 22:23
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: jgd on Fri, 31 January 2025 04:09
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Anne & Lynn Wheel on Sun, 26 January 2025 13:52
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: jgd on Fri, 31 January 2025 04:09
		Re: ancient hacks, was Multics vs Unix By: John Levine on Sun, 26 January 2025 16:12
		Re: ancient hacks, was Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Sun, 26 January 2025 16:24
		Re: ancient hacks, was Multics vs Unix By: Peter Flass on Mon, 27 January 2025 17:45
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Peter Flass on Mon, 27 January 2025 17:45
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Sun, 26 January 2025 16:23
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Sun, 26 January 2025 22:32
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Mon, 27 January 2025 00:46
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Fri, 24 January 2025 19:24
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Anne & Lynn Wheel on Sat, 25 January 2025 04:43
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Sat, 25 January 2025 15:40
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Anne & Lynn Wheel on Sat, 25 January 2025 17:27
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Peter Flass on Mon, 27 January 2025 17:45
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Mon, 27 January 2025 17:53
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Peter Flass on Mon, 27 January 2025 17:45
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Peter Flass on Mon, 27 January 2025 17:45
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Peter Flass on Thu, 23 January 2025 14:07
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: scott on Thu, 23 January 2025 14:48
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Thu, 23 January 2025 19:51
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: John Levine on Fri, 24 January 2025 16:33
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: scott on Fri, 24 January 2025 17:01
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: cross on Fri, 24 January 2025 17:24
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: scott on Fri, 24 January 2025 17:27
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: ted@loft.tnolan.com ( on Fri, 24 January 2025 17:30
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: cross on Fri, 24 January 2025 18:00
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: scott on Fri, 24 January 2025 18:47
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Rich Alderson on Sat, 25 January 2025 19:46
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Sat, 25 January 2025 20:51
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Rich Alderson on Sat, 25 January 2025 21:10
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Peter Flass on Mon, 27 January 2025 17:45
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Mon, 27 January 2025 18:02
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Mon, 27 January 2025 18:58
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: cross on Sat, 25 January 2025 21:48
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Fri, 24 January 2025 19:27
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Peter Flass on Thu, 23 January 2025 13:52
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Thu, 23 January 2025 16:28
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Wed, 22 January 2025 23:10
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Rich Alderson on Sat, 25 January 2025 19:49
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Sat, 25 January 2025 20:59
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Rich Alderson on Sat, 25 January 2025 21:14
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Sun, 26 January 2025 16:50
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Rich Alderson on Sun, 26 January 2025 20:11
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Mon, 27 January 2025 22:34
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: cross on Sat, 25 January 2025 23:04
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Peter Flass on Mon, 27 January 2025 17:45
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Mon, 27 January 2025 18:05
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Peter Flass on Tue, 28 January 2025 18:45
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Peter Flass on Tue, 28 January 2025 18:48
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Tue, 28 January 2025 20:14
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Wed, 29 January 2025 20:31
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Anne & Lynn Wheel on Tue, 21 January 2025 22:27
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Wed, 22 January 2025 05:19
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Anne & Lynn Wheel on Wed, 22 January 2025 13:07
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Peter Flass on Wed, 22 January 2025 13:03
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Anne & Lynn Wheel on Wed, 22 January 2025 13:11
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Anne & Lynn Wheel on Wed, 22 January 2025 13:16
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Wed, 22 January 2025 23:13
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Peter Flass on Mon, 23 December 2024 15:21
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Tue, 21 January 2025 20:37
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Tue, 21 January 2025 21:09
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Wed, 22 January 2025 05:45
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: scott on Wed, 22 January 2025 10:08
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Rich Alderson on Wed, 22 January 2025 19:37
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: cross on Wed, 22 January 2025 23:36
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Anne & Lynn Wheel on Wed, 22 January 2025 17:52
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Peter Flass on Wed, 22 January 2025 18:12
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Anne & Lynn Wheel on Wed, 22 January 2025 19:06
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Wed, 22 January 2025 23:24
		Re: Multics vs Unix By: cross on Wed, 22 January 2025 11:10
		Re: vfork history, Multics vs Unix By: John Levine on Wed, 22 January 2025 22:35
		Re: vfork history, Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Wed, 22 January 2025 23:14
		Re: vfork history, Multics vs Unix By: scott on Thu, 23 January 2025 09:32
		Re: vfork history, Multics vs Unix By: cross on Thu, 23 January 2025 10:55
		Re: vfork history, Multics vs Unix By: scott on Thu, 23 January 2025 12:24
		Re: vfork history, Multics vs Unix By: cross on Fri, 24 January 2025 08:00
		Re: vfork history, Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Fri, 24 January 2025 09:42
		Re: vfork history, Multics vs Unix By: cross on Fri, 24 January 2025 17:25
		Re: vfork history, Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Fri, 24 January 2025 19:35
		Re: vfork history, Multics vs Unix By: ted@loft.tnolan.com ( on Fri, 24 January 2025 20:05
		Re: vfork history, Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Sat, 25 January 2025 03:06
		Re: vfork history, Multics vs Unix By: cross on Sat, 25 January 2025 10:19
		Re: vfork history, Multics vs Unix By: ted@loft.tnolan.com ( on Sat, 25 January 2025 12:21
		Re: PC/IX, was vfork history, Multics vs Unix By: John Levine on Sat, 25 January 2025 15:21
		Re: vfork history, Multics vs Unix By: cross on Sat, 25 January 2025 23:18
		Re: vfork history, Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Sat, 25 January 2025 14:00
		Re: vfork history, Multics vs Unix By: scott on Sat, 25 January 2025 15:50
		Re: vfork history, Multics vs Unix By: cross on Sat, 25 January 2025 23:43
		Re: vfork history, Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Sun, 26 January 2025 10:07
		Re: vfork history, Multics vs Unix By: Charlie Gibbs on Sun, 26 January 2025 13:32
		Re: vfork history, Multics vs Unix By: cross on Sun, 26 January 2025 16:17
		Re: vfork history, Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Sun, 26 January 2025 16:48
		Re: vfork history, Multics vs Unix By: scott on Sat, 25 January 2025 15:48
		Re: vfork history, Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Sat, 25 January 2025 17:27
		Re: vfork history, Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Sat, 25 January 2025 19:12
		Re: vfork history, Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Sat, 25 January 2025 21:01
		Re: vfork history, Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Sun, 26 January 2025 09:56
		Re: vfork history, Multics vs Unix By: Anonymous on Sun, 26 January 2025 16:44
		Re: vfork history, Multics vs Unix By: Anne & Lynn Wheel on Wed, 22 January 2025 23:15
		Re: vfork history, Multics vs Unix By: John Levine on Wed, 22 January 2025 23:43
		Re: vfork history, Multics vs Unix By: cross on Wed, 22 January 2025 23:29
		Re: vfork history, Multics vs Unix By: John Levine on Wed, 22 January 2025 23:48

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