Message-ID: <10400137@uiucdcs.UUCP>
Date: Mon, 23-Apr-84 22:58:00 EST
Article-I.D.: uiucdcs.10400137
Posted: Mon Apr 23 22:58:00 1984
Date-Received: Thu, 26-Apr-84 01:18:43 EST
Lines: 15
Nf-ID: #N:uiucdcs:10400137:000:391
Nf-From: uiucdcs!frey    Apr 23 21:58:00 1984

#N:uiucdcs:10400137:000:391
uiucdcs!frey    Apr 23 21:58:00 1984




     My parents are going to buy me a computer for graduation, but we
 don't know much about them . I am in CS and know that this is a big
 investment for my future. Can anyone reccommend one which is not too
 expensive but would be able to fulfil my needs in the future(such as
 connecting up with other computers via phone, fast baud rate, etc.).
 
 
                          jim
    

Message-ID: <1878@rlgvax.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 25-Apr-84 13:25:56 EST
Article-I.D.: rlgvax.1878
Posted: Wed Apr 25 13:25:56 1984
Date-Received: Fri, 27-Apr-84 00:15:29 EST
References: <10400137@uiucdcs.UUCP>
Organization: CCI Office Systems Group, Reston, VA
Lines: 52

brain			not enough thoughtware available for such an
			advanced parallel processor

fingers			mean time between failures (calloused fingers) is
			too small

abacus			generally not sold with floating point hardware

calculator		you remember how fun they were on April 15th...

Sinlair			it certainly is cute - what else?

Atari 400		great graphics - WHERE's the KEYBOARD?

Apple ][		ah humm....

Atari 800		great graphics - but Alan Kay resigned!

Apple ][e		wow! - they finally figured out that lower case meant!

Commodore 64		not bad but they need a better ad agency

IBM PCjr		Are they kidding!

Apple III		Haven't you ever thought the keyboard looked like
			it could be separated? Oh well.

Apple MAC		new wave technology at its best - cute machine - a
			bit on the pricey side - has a cute carrying case -
			definitely worth looking into - not a great hackers
			machine, though.

IBM PC			vanilla design proves to be a big plus. A good
			development machine. Status symbol.

IBM PCXT		same as for PC except it has a round thing in it
			that whirs. Bigger status symbol.

Compaqs			Come on! Was it really designed on a napkin???

Xerox Star		Now we are getting into the good stuff - a bit
			pricey, though.

etc., etc.

		I guess I like the brain the best - it's the cheapest. It's
		by far the most advanced.

					rlgvax!geller

(these are solely my own views and may not be those of my
 employer)

Message-ID: <4400061@uiuccsb.UUCP>
Date: Fri, 27-Apr-84 01:12:00 EST
Article-I.D.: uiuccsb.4400061
Posted: Fri Apr 27 01:12:00 1984
Date-Received: Sat, 28-Apr-84 11:22:17 EST
References: <10400137@uiucdcs.UUCP>
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Nf-ID: #R:uiucdcs:10400137:uiuccsb:4400061:000:222
Nf-From: uiuccsb!grunwald    Apr 27 00:12:00 1984

#R:uiucdcs:10400137:uiuccsb:4400061:000:222
uiuccsb!grunwald    Apr 27 00:12:00 1984

  Buy a $700 terminal and a modem if you want to work at home. Buying a machine
in college is nice in theory, but when will you have time to use it? I used to
own a Heath H-8 --- sat idle most of the time, till I sold it.

Message-ID: <1887@rlgvax.UUCP>
Date: Sun, 29-Apr-84 16:16:11 EDT
Article-I.D.: rlgvax.1887
Posted: Sun Apr 29 16:16:11 1984
Date-Received: Mon, 30-Apr-84 05:53:50 EDT
References: <10400137@uiucdcs.UUCP> <4400061@uiuccsb.UUCP>
Organization: CCI Office Systems Group, Reston, VA
Lines: 5

I had my ATARI 800 system at college for two years. It got more
use than my text books. Therein lies the reason for me now being out
of college.  Such are the perils of hacking and of life...

					rlgvax!geller

Message-ID: <278@sjuvax.UUCP>
Date: Mon, 30-Apr-84 16:20:40 EDT
Article-I.D.: sjuvax.278
Posted: Mon Apr 30 16:20:40 1984
Date-Received: Sun, 6-May-84 01:18:40 EDT
References: <10400137@uiucdcs.UUCP>
Organization: Saint Josephs Univ. Phila., Pa.
Lines: 51

>>      My parents are going to buy me a computer for graduation, but we
>>  don't know much about them . I am in CS and know that this is a big
>>  investment for my future. Can anyone reccommend one which is not too
>>  expensive but would be able to fulfil my needs in the future(such as
>>  connecting up with other computers via phone, fast baud rate, etc.).
>>  
>>  
>>                           jim

Best Computer for you to buy at this time - none.

Reasons as follow :

Currently you may be interested in Computers, but this may change
once you are in College.  As a present teacher, and past TA, I have
seen plenty of students who changed their minds about majoring in
CSI following the first x semesters.

Buying a Computer now means that you pay full list for it.  If you
buy one in College, you can
	i.  Make a more educated decision as to your requirements.
	ii. Avail of substantial discounts that may be offered.  Some
	    schools are offering the Apple MAC for about the same
	    price as the ][e.  The Univ. I am currently at, is giving
	    a 62% discount to its students to buy the DEC Rainbow
	    (not my decision).  
	    You can probably get more Computer for your Cash.

	iii. Just hacking around with a Personal at this moment is
	     probably not going to help you too much with your future
	     plans.  One of the favourite gripes of TA's that I spoke
	     was the "Know it all *ssh*l*" Who generally wrote 
	     goddawful code, and was certain that there was nothing
	     left for them to learn.  Also, don't be so certain that
	     a Computer Course/knowledge is necessary from the
	     high school level.  I had never SEEN a computer till I
	     found myself in Grad School in an MS program (due to
	     a set of rather unusual circumstances). My case may be
	     pathological, but I'm sure its not all that uncommon.

Anyhow, best of luck in your choice.

PS.  Send me flames for inappropriateness of posting this.  I love
	mail.

Regards,
-- 


				Binayak Banerjee
		{allegra | astrovax | bpa | burdvax}!sjuvax!bbanerje

Message-ID: <1456@zehntel.UUCP>
Date: Fri, 4-May-84 04:25:55 EDT
Article-I.D.: zehntel.1456
Posted: Fri May  4 04:25:55 1984
Date-Received: Sun, 6-May-84 07:45:26 EDT
Sender: berry@zehntel.UUCP
Organization: Zehntel Inc., Walnut Creek, CA
Lines: 21

#R:uiucdcs:10400137:zinfandel:15200029:000:683
zinfandel!berry    Apr 26 14:37:00 1984

>>brain			not enough thoughtware available for such an
>>			advanced parallel processor
>>
>>					rlgvax!geller

Not enough thoughtware!!!  Good grief!  What do you think public
libraries are?  Chopped liver?  They have referenceware (dictionary,
encyclopaedia), utilityware (how to make big money stuffing veeblefetzers
at home in your spare time),  some of the best 'Adventure' style -ware of the
last 5000 years (The Odyssey, the Illiad, Shakespeare, Raymond Chandler,
Heinlein, Anderson, etc.).  SOme of the biggest libraries have
CATALOGS you can't read in six months!

No thoughtware????  Sheesh!!!!

Berry Kercheval		Zehntel Inc.	(ihnp4!zehntel!zinfandel!berry)
(415)932-6900

Message-ID: <10400142@uiucdcs.UUCP>
Date: Sun, 6-May-84 12:21:00 EDT
Article-I.D.: uiucdcs.10400142
Posted: Sun May  6 12:21:00 1984
Date-Received: Tue, 8-May-84 00:01:10 EDT
References: <10400137@uiucdcs.UUCP>
Lines: 21
Nf-ID: #R:uiucdcs:10400137:uiucdcs:10400142:000:999
Nf-From: uiucdcs!seaburg    May  6 11:21:00 1984

#R:uiucdcs:10400137:uiucdcs:10400142:000:999
uiucdcs!seaburg    May  6 11:21:00 1984

I agree with the previous response.  Wait a while.  If you know you'll
be able to access your school's computer systems, an inexpensive
($500+) terminal and modem would be your best bet.  (Incidently, I
would NOT get a Commodore 64 or Vic 20 with a modem and use it as a
terminal.  Many friends of mine did this, and they end up coming over
to my room and using our Hazeltine 1500 instead of theirs because the
quality isn't that great for extensive programming.  Especially if
your program lines go out past 60 columns!)  Also, look around for a
used terminal and you might save yourself $200.  

Why buy a computer if you don't know what you're going to do with it?
All that stuff about not doing well in college because you "lack the
necessary computer skills" is baloney.

I'm a graduating senior in CS at U. Illinois.  I thought about getting 
my own computer, but I have access to school computers and I can do
practically anything I'd want to from my roommate's terminal.  (I own
the modem.)

Message-ID: <10400143@uiucdcs.UUCP>
Date: Mon, 7-May-84 21:44:00 EDT
Article-I.D.: uiucdcs.10400143
Posted: Mon May  7 21:44:00 1984
Date-Received: Wed, 9-May-84 01:45:00 EDT
References: <10400137@uiucdcs.UUCP>
Lines: 27
Nf-ID: #R:uiucdcs:10400137:uiucdcs:10400143:000:1253
Nf-From: uiucdcs!miller    May  7 20:44:00 1984

#R:uiucdcs:10400137:uiucdcs:10400143:000:1253
uiucdcs!miller    May  7 20:44:00 1984

"Incidently, I would NOT get a Commodore 64 or Vic 20 with a modem and use it
as a terminal.  Many friends of mine did this, and they end up coming over
to my room and using our Hazeltine 1500 instead of theirs because the
quality isn't that great for extensive programming."

It depends on what you want.  Sure, the c64 has its limitations.  But then
again, for a couple of hundred bucks I'm satisfied.  I can run things like vi
on my c64 with no problems.  My biggest mistake was getting a 300, rather than
1200, baud modem.  Commodore's big (only?) advantage is that it will give you
*something* for little cash.

"All that stuff about not doing well in college because you 'lack the
necessary computer skills' is baloney."

I couldn't agree more.  I really dislike Commodore's commercials, especially
the one with the train and the implied message that "if you don't buy a
computer for little Johnny, he's going to flunk out of college and it's going
to be YOUR fault".  After viewing that, a friend remarked that no doubt many
more kids have flunked out of school *because* they owned a computer than those
that flunked because they didn't.  Face it, 90% of the people spend 90% of
their time on a micro playing games.

A. Ray Miller
Univ Illinois

Message-ID: <1902@rlgvax.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 8-May-84 10:06:22 EDT
Article-I.D.: rlgvax.1902
Posted: Tue May  8 10:06:22 1984
Date-Received: Sun, 13-May-84 00:33:08 EDT
References: <1456@zehntel.UUCP>
Organization: CCI Office Systems Group, Reston, VA
Lines: 13

When I stated that there wasn't enough thoughtware available for the
brain I was implying that there were not enought known tools to take
advantage of the incredible processing power of our chemically based
grey bodies. Sure there are libraries and books and catalogs.  There
are also scrolls of papyrus, abacuses, etc. Why use the net -because
it's better, faster. My message/joke was meant to allude to the fact
that our brains are, perhaps, one of the most sophisticated of logic
manipulating mechanisms. Don't worry -we all appreciate your liberal
education.

					rlgvax!geller

					David P. Geller