Message-ID: <207@spp2.UUCP>
Date: Fri, 2-Nov-84 15:44:34 EST
Article-I.D.: spp2.207
Posted: Fri Nov  2 15:44:34 1984
Date-Received: Mon, 5-Nov-84 19:52:02 EST
References: <3971@cbscc.UUCP>
Reply-To: brahms@spp2.UUCP (Bradley S. Brahms)
Organization: TRW, Redondo Beach  CA
Lines: 31
Summary: 

[}{]

 > 	As Zefram Cochrane pointed ou in 2053, actual warp speeds relative
 > to the speed of light may be calculated by multiplying the warp factor
 > cubed by a variable that accounts for the curvature of space in a fourth
 > dimension by the presence of mass; subspace, a continuum in which a vessel
 > under warp drive travels, is not curved in a fourth spatial dimension,
 > and therefore offers a linear "short cut" between points in our galaxy.
 > This variable, called Cochrane's factor and sometimes indicated by the greek
 > letter chi (X) [which I can only use a capital X for it], can be as high as
 > 1,500 in dense dust and gas clouds and as little as 1 in intergalactic
 > void.  It is larger neat massive objects such as star and black holes, as
 > space is curved around such as objects to an even greater extent.  For
 > practical reasons, warp drive is not used in the vicinity of massive objects,
 > as the disproportionately high warp speeds tend to produce a "slingshot
 > effect," catapulting a starship out of this space-time continuum altogether.
 > Between galaxies, where negligible matter exists, space is not perceptibly
 > curved, and the short cut afforded by Cochrane's factor disappears.  Warp
 > speeds attain their "ideal" (W^3) * c = v values, and the transit time to
 > the Andromeda galaxy becomes thousands rather than hundreds of years.

Here is my question:

	In the ST-III Novelization, there are reports of a ship that has
reached the Andromeda galaxy.  With the above formula, which seems much
more reasonable than (W^3)c=v, this would not be possible.
Any ideas or should we just ignore this at not being true ST?

			-- Brad brahms
			   usenet: {decvax,ucbvax}!trwrb!trwspp!brahms
			   arpa:   Brahms@usc-eclc

Message-ID: <3070@mit-eddie.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 6-Nov-84 03:26:26 EST
Article-I.D.: mit-eddi.3070
Posted: Tue Nov  6 03:26:26 1984
Date-Received: Thu, 8-Nov-84 00:16:46 EST
References: <3971@cbscc.UUCP> <207@spp2.UUCP>
Reply-To: barmar@mit-eddie.UUCP (Barry Margolin)
Organization: MIT, Cambridge, MA
Lines: 17


I read the novelization, and they explained how people were able to
reach Andromeda.  The new hyperwarp drive, which is what "Lt. Hunter's"
ship used, allows much greater speeds.  I think the book gave the new
formula, which may have been that at hyperwarp factor H you are
traveling c*H^5, as opposed to c*W^3 for warp factor W.  Thus, at
hyperwarp factor 8 you are traveling over 32,000 times the speed of
light.

Of course, this is again not really enough, just as we have already
determined that the warp formula is insufficient.  At the above
hyperwarp factor 8 it would take years to cross the Milky Way (100,000
light-years across), and generations to cross intergalactic distances.
-- 
    Barry Margolin
    ARPA: barmar@MIT-Multics
    UUCP: ..!genrad!mit-eddie!barmar

Message-ID: <471@ncoast.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 7-Nov-84 14:18:53 EST
Article-I.D.: ncoast.471
Posted: Wed Nov  7 14:18:53 1984
Date-Received: Sat, 10-Nov-84 02:50:20 EST
References: <3971@cbscc.UUCP> <207@spp2.UUCP>
Reply-To: bsa@ncoast.UUCP (Brandon Allbery)
Organization: North Coast XENIX, Cleveland
Lines: 38
Summary: 

 >  Article <207@spp2.UUCP>, from brahms@spp2.UUCP
+----------------
| >	As Zefram Cochrane pointed ou in 2053, actual warp speeds relative
| >to the speed of light may be calculated by multiplying the warp factor
| >cubed by a variable that accounts for the curvature of space in a fourth
| >dimension by the presence of mass; subspace, a continuum in which a vessel
| >under warp drive travels, is not curved in a fourth spatial dimension,
| >and therefore offers a linear "short cut" between points in our galaxy.
| >... and the transit time to
| >the Andromeda galaxy becomes thousands rather than hundreds of years.
| 
| Here is my question:
| 
| 	In the ST-III Novelization, there are reports of a ship that has
| reached the Andromeda galaxy.  With the above formula, which seems much
| more reasonable than (W^3)c=v, this would not be possible.
| Any ideas or should we just ignore this at not being true ST?
| 

Vonda McIntyre is much truer to ST than many authors (and screenwriters!).
She was referring to a ship described in _T_h_e_ _E_n_t_r_o_p_y_ _E_f_f_e_c_t, an
earlier ST novel of hers.  As I remember it, it was a halfway point between
transwarp and ordinary warp drives; and, being small, could attain transwarp
speeds.  100^3(c)= fast enough, I think.

--bsa
--
  Brandon Allbery @ North Coast Xenix  |   the.world!ucbvax!decvax!cwruecmp!
6504 Chestnut Road, Independence, Ohio |       {atvax!}ncoast!{tdi1!}bsa
   (216) 524-1416             \ 44131  | E1439@CSUOHIO.BITNET (friend's acct.)
---------------------------------------+---------------------------------------
			`Confusion is my natural state.'
-- 
  Brandon Allbery @ North Coast Xenix  |   the.world!ucbvax!decvax!cwruecmp!
6504 Chestnut Road, Independence, Ohio |       {atvax!}ncoast!{tdi1!}bsa
   (216) 524-1416             \ 44131  | E1439@CSUOHIO.BITNET (friend's acct.)
---------------------------------------+---------------------------------------
			`Confusion is my natural state.'