Message-ID: <3236@cbscc.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 12-Jul-84 08:15:02 EDT
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Posted: Thu Jul 12 08:15:02 1984
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I just saw this episode last night here in Columbus and it occurred to me:

If the Enterprise (and all its people) dissappeared (never existed) after
McCoy went through the Gateway (Guardian), why didn't the remaining crew
on the planet also go  ? 

Any theories?  Only thing I can figure is that they were held by the presence
of the Guardian..

Still is my all time fave, though.

Scott W. Collins
ATT - Bell Labs @ Columbus

Message-ID: <123@cbosgd.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 12-Jul-84 22:35:43 EDT
Article-I.D.: cbosgd.123
Posted: Thu Jul 12 22:35:43 1984
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	I just saw that episode, too.  And, That also bothered me a bit.
	But maybe the Planet of the Gaurdian was like a null-time zone
	or something, and since Kirk and gang were down there, past and 
	present did not effect them.


		Or meebee noo,

		Ben Walls
		...cbosgd!bsw

Message-ID: <10774@mgweed.UUCP>
Date: Fri, 13-Jul-84 18:00:21 EDT
Article-I.D.: mgweed.10774
Posted: Fri Jul 13 18:00:21 1984
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This is one of the greats!!!  I haven't seen it in a long time, but
didn't the crew that remained on the surface mention that they
saw Kirk and Spock jump through, and instantly jump back??
Obiviously caught in a time warp!!  What is even more interesting,
and even would support this, is that after the the doctor jumped
through, time did not stop for the people on the surface (must
have been 'nested' time warps!?).  What I'm trying to say is that
had the crew remaining on the ship been observing the surface,
they should have seen the doctor jump through, and the next
instant, the three of them jump back out!!

Message-ID: <2204@dartvax.UUCP>
Date: Sat, 14-Jul-84 12:06:38 EDT
Article-I.D.: dartvax.2204
Posted: Sat Jul 14 12:06:38 1984
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{ }

Precisely that.  I believe Spock mentions something on the bridge about how
all these foofy timelines intersect at this planet.  Ergo, we can assume
that the planet was safe from being messed with.

I agree.  That was a marvelous episode.
--
"I found us a place to flop..."                                Peter Merchant

Message-ID: <4009@cbscc.UUCP>
Date: Sun, 4-Nov-84 15:14:06 EST
Article-I.D.: cbscc.4009
Posted: Sun Nov  4 15:14:06 1984
Date-Received: Tue, 6-Nov-84 04:39:35 EST
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories , Columbus
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I lost Ron Lipsius' (sp?) address, but I have determined the answer to his
question from my COTEOF Fotonovel.  On beam-down to the planet, there was
Uhura, Spock, Scotty, Kirk, and two security guards.  At the end, on beam-
up there was the above list plus Bones to make seven!

Could Harlan Ellison have made a boo-boo, or did the film editors?

Scott W. Collins
ATT - Bare Rubber Trees

p.s.
	this is in response to a direct-mailing to me, for those of you
who have no idea where the QUESTION came from...

Message-ID: <3058@mit-eddie.UUCP>
Date: Sun, 4-Nov-84 18:41:09 EST
Article-I.D.: mit-eddi.3058
Posted: Sun Nov  4 18:41:09 1984
Date-Received: Tue, 6-Nov-84 04:48:23 EST
References: <3989@cbscc.UUCP>
Reply-To: barmar@mit-eddie.UUCP (Barry Margolin)
Organization: MIT, Cambridge, MA
Lines: 19

In article <3989@cbscc.UUCP> swc@cbscc.UUCP (Scott W. Collins) writes:
 > 	* From the staging of the moves and the facial expressions, it would
 > 	  appear that Harlan Ellison has a surrealistic streak in him.  I
 > 	  have only read one of his works, so pardon me if I am mistaken...

What does Harlan Ellison have to do with these things?  He wrote the
original teleplay, which was rewritten a great deal, but even that
doesn't matter.  The comments above refer to the work of the DIRECTOR
and the actors.  By this time in the filming of the episode, Ellison had
already stopped working with them in disgust at what they did to his
story.

It is interesting to read Ellison's original teleplay, by the way.  It
is in a collection entitled something like "6 Short Science Fiction
Plays."
-- 
    Barry Margolin
    ARPA: barmar@MIT-Multics
    UUCP: ..!genrad!mit-eddie!barmar

Message-ID: <609@watdcsu.UUCP>
Date: Mon, 5-Nov-84 13:06:41 EST
Article-I.D.: watdcsu.609
Posted: Mon Nov  5 13:06:41 1984
Date-Received: Tue, 6-Nov-84 05:15:25 EST
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Organization: U of Waterloo, Ontario
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Didn't McCoy beam down first and then the others followed him down?  I
thought that was how the story went.  Also, with 6-person transporters,
how did they beam 7 people up at once?  Wouldn't this overload
something or scramble parts of someone?  Obviously this didn't happen,
but it is an interesting question.

Herb Chong...

I'm user-friendly -- I don't byte, I nybble....

UUCP:  {decvax|utzoo|ihnp4|allegra|clyde}!watmath!watdcsu!herbie
CSNET: herbie%watdcsu@waterloo.csnet
ARPA:  herbie%watdcsu%waterloo.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa
BITNET: herbie at watdcs,herbie at watdcsu

Message-ID: <4134@decwrl.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 6-Nov-84 03:16:00 EST
Article-I.D.: decwrl.4134
Posted: Tue Nov  6 03:16:00 1984
Date-Received: Thu, 8-Nov-84 01:19:54 EST
Sender: daemon@decwrl.UUCP
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 >  From:	mit-eddie!barmar	(Barry Margolin)

 >  It is interesting to read Ellison's original teleplay, by the way.  It
 >  is in a collection entitled something like "6 Short Science Fiction
 >  Plays."

The interesting thing I find about Ellison's ranting and raving about Rodden-
berry's changing his script is that, personally, I feel that Roddenberry made
the right decision in one major story element. In Ellison's original script,
Kirk was going to save Edith Keeler's life, but Spock stops him. While I can
see Ellison's possible reason for doing this --- the dramatic punch of Kirk
losing the one woman for whom he *would* sacrifice an entire future --- I think
it had much greater impact on the character for Kirk to stop McCoy. That scene
of McCoy screaming "Do you know what you've done?" and Spock responding, "He
knows, Doctor, he knows." is one that'll probably never stop haunting me.


--- jayembee (Jerry Boyajian, DEC, Maynard, MA)

UUCP:	{decvax|ihnp4|allegra|ucbvax|...}!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-akov68!boyajian
ARPA:	boyajian%akov68.DEC@DECWRL.ARPA

Message-ID: <176@qumix.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 7-Nov-84 16:01:47 EST
Article-I.D.: qumix.176
Posted: Wed Nov  7 16:01:47 1984
Date-Received: Thu, 8-Nov-84 08:23:39 EST
References: <4009@cbscc.UUCP> <609@watdcsu.UUCP>
Organization: Qume Corp., San Jose, CA
Lines: 30

 >  Didn't McCoy beam down first and then the others followed him down?  I
 >  thought that was how the story went.  Also, with 6-person transporters,
 >  how did they beam 7 people up at once?  Wouldn't this overload
 >  something or scramble parts of someone?  Obviously this didn't happen,
 >  but it is an interesting question.
 >  
 >  Herb Chong...
 >  
 >  I'm user-friendly -- I don't byte, I nybble....
 >  
 >  UUCP:  {decvax|utzoo|ihnp4|allegra|clyde}!watmath!watdcsu!herbie
 >  CSNET: herbie%watdcsu@waterloo.csnet
 >  ARPA:  herbie%watdcsu%waterloo.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa
 >  BITNET: herbie at watdcs,herbie at watdcsu

	I think Herb is right,McCoy was giving Sulu some super heart
	restart juice and the Enterprise was jolted by some kind of
	space time warp from the planet.McCoy shot himself up
	went crazy and beamed down to the planet in a frenzy and 
	the other six followed to catch him.

	As far as the seven beamed back up at the end of the show I
	don't remember but maybe one of the red shirts go it again!
							       :-)


	P.S. I'm new on the net so please be patient / I love mail so
	feel free to drop me a line.

	Stoner...

Message-ID: <1024@hou5e.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 7-Nov-84 13:35:12 EST
Article-I.D.: hou5e.1024
Posted: Wed Nov  7 13:35:12 1984
Date-Received: Fri, 9-Nov-84 06:37:51 EST
References: <4134@decwrl.UUCP>
Organization: AT&T Information Systems Laboratories, Holmdel, NJ
Lines: 8

Very interesting comment about the impact of Kirk stopping McCoy--
especially when you consider that McCoy represents Kirk's emotional
intuitive half and Spock his rational half.

ellen bart

"its only a show -- but boy what a show !"

Message-ID: <1091@trwrba.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 7-Nov-84 11:17:10 EST
Article-I.D.: trwrba.1091
Posted: Wed Nov  7 11:17:10 1984
Date-Received: Sat, 10-Nov-84 03:06:11 EST
Organization: TRW EDS, Redondo Beach, CA
Lines: 37

 >>  From:	mit-eddie!barmar	(Barry Margolin)

 >>  It is interesting to read Ellison's original teleplay, by the way.  It
 >>  is in a collection entitled something like "6 Short Science Fiction
 >>  Plays."

 > The interesting thing I find about Ellison's ranting and raving about Rodden-
 > berry's changing his script is that, personally, I feel that Roddenberry made
 > the right decision in one major story element. In Ellison's original script,
 > Kirk was going to save Edith Keeler's life, but Spock stops him. While I can
 > see Ellison's possible reason for doing this --- the dramatic punch of Kirk
 > losing the one woman for whom he *would* sacrifice an entire future -- I think
 > it had much greater impact on the character for Kirk to stop McCoy. That scene
 > of McCoy screaming "Do you know what you've done?" and Spock responding, "He
 > knows, Doctor, he knows." is one that'll probably never stop haunting me.


 > --- jayembee (Jerry Boyajian, DEC, Maynard, MA)

 > UUCP:	{decvax|ihnp4|allegra|ucbvax|...}!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-akov68!boyajian
 > ARPA:	boyajian%akov68.DEC@DECWRL.ARPA

Jerry Boyajian has a very good point.  I find the way Roddenberry and
company handled the ending to the story of The City on the Edge of Forever
quite well.  I was much more dramatically effective for Kirk to stop
McCoy and Spock to say what he did than it would have been for Spock to
stop the Captain.  I never had the pleasure of reading the original
script, but (and usually I do not like script changes, they are usually
for the worse) I would probably have done the same thing.

"Live Long and Prosper!"

Michael N. Washington
TRW E&DS  Redondo Beach, Ca.  90278

{ucbvax,decvax,hplabs}!trwrb!trwrba!mnw

Message-ID: <991@druri.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 8-Nov-84 15:50:07 EST
Article-I.D.: druri.991
Posted: Thu Nov  8 15:50:07 1984
Date-Received: Sat, 10-Nov-84 07:29:48 EST
References: <3989@cbscc.UUCP>
Organization: AT&T Information Systems Laboratories, Denver
Lines: 4


Yeah, all good and well, but you forgot the *really* wild part of this
episode: JOAN COLLINS plays Edith! I mean - from save-the-world to
superbitch!

Message-ID: <1094@trwrba.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 8-Nov-84 11:00:23 EST
Article-I.D.: trwrba.1094
Posted: Thu Nov  8 11:00:23 1984
Date-Received: Sat, 10-Nov-84 20:48:13 EST
Organization: TRW EDS, Redondo Beach, CA
Lines: 34

 > Didn't McCoy beam down first and then the others followed him down?  I
 > thought that was how the story went.  Also, with 6-person transporters,
 > how did they beam 7 people up at once?  Wouldn't this overload
 > something or scramble parts of someone?  Obviously this didn't happen,
 > but it is an interesting question.
 > 
 > Herb Chong...
 > 
 > I'm user-friendly -- I don't byte, I nybble....
 > 
 > UUCP:  {decvax|utzoo|ihnp4|allegra|clyde}!watmath!watdcsu!herbie
 > CSNET: herbie%watdcsu@waterloo.csnet
 > ARPA:  herbie%watdcsu%waterloo.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa
 > BITNET: herbie at watdcs,herbie at watdcsu

McCoy beamed down first, then the others followed.  More than six people
can beam up at once, but only six can be materialized at once.  The episode
that Michael Ansara was in as a Klingon commander, Kirk and party had been
captured on the planet.  Kang (Ansara) ordered all beamed up, so he could
capture the Enterprise.  Kirk ordered the transporter operator to beam all
up, but only materialize the Federation personnell so he could summon
security, then materialized the Klingons (etc.  I haven't seen this 
episode in a while, so my facts may be sketchy).

So, I think more can be beamed up at once, but no more than six can be
materialized at the same time.  The others are saved in the transporter
beams until such time the operator can materialize them.

"Live Long and Prosper!"

Michael N. Washington
TRW E&DS  Redondo Beach, Ca.  90278

{ucbvax,decvax,hplabs}!trwrb!trwrba!mnw

Message-ID: <5800044@uokvax.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 8-Nov-84 01:10:00 EST
Article-I.D.: uokvax.5800044
Posted: Thu Nov  8 01:10:00 1984
Date-Received: Sun, 11-Nov-84 20:37:25 EST
References: <3989@cbscc.UUCP>
Lines: 32
Nf-ID: #R:cbscc:-398900:uokvax:5800044:000:1206
Nf-From: uokvax!tfitzger    Nov  8 00:10:00 1984

/***** uokvax:net.startrek / cbscc!swc /  5:11 pm  Nov  1, 1984 */
 > <

Ah, my all-time favorite was on last night.  I decided to tape the accident
scene at the end.  After careful studying (things happened fast), I noticed
several things:

	* Spock's voice, when he called out to Jim to not save Edith's life
	  was dubbed over with a double.  It sounded like the voice of an
	  alien in the "V" movie/series.

	* Spock showed genuine emotion when reunited with McCoy;  grabbing his
	  arm in an embrace with the three of them and shaking Bones' hand A
	  LOT.

	* From the staging of the moves and the facial expressions, it would
	  appear that Harlan Ellison has a surrealistic streak in him.  I
	  have only read one of his works, so pardon me if I am mistaken...

	* The part where they show the truck hitting Edith was pretty inter-
	  esting in slow-motion.  They actually had a truck (or a fake front
	  end of one) hit her slightly.

	* Back on the planetoid, the faces of Uhura and Scotty were quite
	  interesting as they stood puzzled at the numbness conveyed by Kirk.

Sigh. To have a group of trekkies to nit-pick with...

Scott W. Collins
ATT - Bare Rubber Trees (Columbus)
/* ---------- */

Message-ID: <476@ncoast.UUCP>
Date: Fri, 9-Nov-84 14:19:05 EST
Article-I.D.: ncoast.476
Posted: Fri Nov  9 14:19:05 1984
Date-Received: Tue, 13-Nov-84 06:45:39 EST
References: <4009@cbscc.UUCP> <609@watdcsu.UUCP> <176@qumix.UUCP>
Reply-To: bsa@ncoast.UUCP (Brandon Allbery)
Organization: North Coast XENIX, Cleveland
Lines: 47
Summary: 

 >  Article <176@qumix.UUCP>, from stoner@qumix.UUCP (David Stone)
+----------------
| > Didn't McCoy beam down first and then the others followed him down?  I
| > thought that was how the story went.  Also, with 6-person transporters,
| > how did they beam 7 people up at once?  Wouldn't this overload
| > something or scramble parts of someone?  Obviously this didn't happen,
| > but it is an interesting question.
| > 
| > Herb Chong...
| > 
| > I'm user-friendly -- I don't byte, I nybble....
| > 
| > UUCP:  {decvax|utzoo|ihnp4|allegra|clyde}!watmath!watdcsu!herbie
| > CSNET: herbie%watdcsu@waterloo.csnet
| > ARPA:  herbie%watdcsu%waterloo.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa
| > BITNET: herbie at watdcs,herbie at watdcsu
| 
| 	I think Herb is right,McCoy was giving Sulu some super heart
| 	restart juice and the Enterprise was jolted by some kind of
| 	space time warp from the planet.McCoy shot himself up
| 	went crazy and beamed down to the planet in a frenzy and 
| 	the other six followed to catch him.
| 
| 	As far as the seven beamed back up at the end of the show I
| 	don't remember but maybe one of the red shirts go it again!
| 							       :-)
| 
| 
| 	P.S. I'm new on the net so please be patient / I love mail so
| 	feel free to drop me a line.
| 
| 	Stoner...

Nope -- the red shirts, for a change, don't get zapped.  I suspect they
used *two* transporters; doesn't the Enterprise have 4 of them?  (Yes,
according to my Star Fleet Tech Manual.)  Two are on the port side, Deck
7, separated by a corridor; the other two are in mirror-image positions
on the starboard side.  Why not beam four to T.R.1 and the other three to
T.R.2?

--bsa
-- 
  Brandon Allbery @ North Coast Xenix  |   the.world!ucbvax!decvax!cwruecmp!
6504 Chestnut Road, Independence, Ohio |       {atvax!}ncoast!{tdi1!}bsa
   (216) 524-1416             \ 44131  | E1439@CSUOHIO.BITNET (friend's acct.)
---------------------------------------+---------------------------------------
			`Confusion is my natural state.'

Message-ID: <135@psivax.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 14-Nov-84 18:22:48 EST
Article-I.D.: psivax.135
Posted: Wed Nov 14 18:22:48 1984
Date-Received: Fri, 16-Nov-84 07:05:07 EST
References: <1100@trwrba.UUCP>
Organization: Pacesetter Systems Inc., Sylmar, CA
Lines: 7

<>

	I watched that episode when it aired here yesterday,
and I very carefully counted the number beaming in the last
scene.  There *were* definately *seven* beaming up simultaneously.

		"Peace and Long Life"