Message-ID: <1388@dartvax.UUCP>
Date: Fri, 27-Apr-84 15:23:35 EST
Article-I.D.: dartvax.1388
Posted: Fri Apr 27 15:23:35 1984
Date-Received: Sat, 28-Apr-84 11:00:59 EST
Organization: Dartmouth College
Lines: 25



  Most Trek fans know that the progression of command of the
Enterprise goes from Kirk to Spock to Scotty to Sulu.
But who comes after that?  I remember only one episode when
all four were off the ship at once, and that was "Catspaw".
In that episode, another guy takes over.  He had dark
hair, and wore a red engineering-division shirt.  The one
line of his that I distinctly remember is (when the Enterprise
has been encased by the witch's force field) something
like: "We may not be able to break it, but I'll bet
 to Navy beans we can put a dent in it!"
Does anyone recall this person's rank and name?  What the
rationale for having him in command was (over, say, Uhura)?
Does he appears in any other episodes?  I know there
was an animated episode in which Uhura took command.
   Also, does anyone know what the  in the
above quote is supposed to be?  I guess the memory
isn't as distinct as I thought.
 
 
                              Mark Vita
                              ..!decvax!dartvax!markv

Message-ID: <317@astrovax.UUCP>
Date: Sat, 28-Apr-84 13:10:06 EDT
Article-I.D.: astrovax.317
Posted: Sat Apr 28 13:10:06 1984
Date-Received: Sun, 29-Apr-84 07:56:46 EDT
References: <1388@dartvax.UUCP>
Organization: Princeton Univ. Astrophysics
Lines: 3


   You speak of Lt. DeSalle, who also appeared in the first season episode
"Squire of Gothos".  As to the sequence that leads to his ascendancy to command,
it's probably a quirk of the Catspaw script.

Message-ID: <450@ihuxt.UUCP>
Date: Sun, 29-Apr-84 22:07:44 EDT
Article-I.D.: ihuxt.450
Posted: Sun Apr 29 22:07:44 1984
Date-Received: Mon, 30-Apr-84 05:36:30 EDT
References: <1388@dartvax.UUCP>
Organization: AT&T Bell Labs, Naperville, IL
Lines: 2

Credits to navy beans -- WWII slang -- navy beans were not rationed and
therefore no government credits were needed to purchase them.

Message-ID: <444@ihlts.UUCP>
Date: Mon, 30-Apr-84 11:35:08 EDT
Article-I.D.: ihlts.444
Posted: Mon Apr 30 11:35:08 1984
Date-Received: Tue, 1-May-84 07:37:54 EDT
References: <1388@dartvax.UUCP>
Organization: AT&T Bell Labs, Naperville, IL
Lines: 21

Yes, that was Lieutenant Vincent DeSalle played by Michael Barrier.
He was a relief navigator in "Squire of Gothos" and "This Side of
Paradise", but in "Catspaw" he was assistant chief engineer.  He
appeared in no other episodes.  The rationale for him being fifth in
command seems to have something to do with the rationale for Sulu being
fourth.  It's always seemed to me that (in the series at least) there
were too few high-ranking officers on board the Enterprise.  Of course
there can to be only one Captain, but why only one Commander (Spock, who
had been a Lt.Cdr.) and one Lt.Cdr. we know of (Scott).  LOTS of Lieutenants
(like Sulu, Uhura), but why should there not be another Commander or
Lieutenant Commander next in charge?  I decided it probably had something
to do with "department chiefs", like Command (Kirk), Sciences (Spock),
Engineering (Scott), followed by their assistants, Sulu (Command), and
DeSalle (Engineering).  Who's second in Sciences?  I don't know.  There
are several holes in this explanation.  At least in ST3 we'll get to see
a lot of Uhura "being in charge" [HINT].

The quote is "I'll bet credits to navy beans . . ." but refers not to the
U.S. military credits but to the Federation-wide use of credits as a
monetary standard.  The saying does of course originate in World War II.
	Roger Noe		ihnp4!ihlts!rjnoe

Message-ID: <1447@sdccs6.UUCP>
Date: Mon, 30-Apr-84 06:55:08 EDT
Article-I.D.: sdccs6.1447
Posted: Mon Apr 30 06:55:08 1984
Date-Received: Tue, 1-May-84 19:16:06 EDT
References: <317@astrovax.UUCP>
Organization: UCSD Medical School
Lines: 20

Actually I remember reading in one of the books about the filming of
the Star Trek episode, (either The Making of Star Trek or The World of
Star Trek), Lt. Uhura was suppose to be next after Capt. Kirk, Cmmdr.
Spock, or Lt. Cmmdr. Scott, but when a script actually came up when
Kirk, Spock, and Scott were going to leave the ship, NBC,  [a force
greater than the combined forces of the Federation, Klingons, and
Romulans -)], ruled that a woman could not command a starship.
Suddenly Sulu gained seniority.  Apparently Nichelle Nichols and Gene
Roddenberry complained a lot about this.

Also where is it written that the most senior commanding officer
takes the conn when the captain leaves the ship?  On naval ships the
deck officer rotates among all the officers according to the watch
list.  The OOD can only be relieved by the captain or first mate
even if another officer is more senior to the OOD.  Could the conn
just pass on to whoever is next on the watch list when the captain
leaves the Federation ship?  This is a weak argument, since the
captain can only leave a naval ship when the ship is in port and
therefore off duty; whereas the captain of a Federation ship can
leave at anytime.

Message-ID: <1406@dartvax.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 1-May-84 12:51:43 EDT
Article-I.D.: dartvax.1406
Posted: Tue May  1 12:51:43 1984
Date-Received: Wed, 2-May-84 06:37:28 EDT
References: <1388@dartvax.UUCP>, <444@ihlts.UUCP>
Organization: Dartmouth College
Lines: 25


               This is in regard to the succession of command in the
science division (as pointed out by Roger Noe.)
               I believe that in "The Menagerie", Spock, when pressed
by Dr. McCoy about the shuttlecraft persuing the Enterprise, turned himself
in to the highest ranking officer present...Dr. McCoy. If the succession
of command does extend into the science division (which is probably 
unlikely given that one division in the official hierarchy is command) it
would probably point to McCoy next.
-- 


Bob McMahan

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Message-ID: <1062@qubix.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 2-May-84 15:49:00 EDT
Article-I.D.: qubix.1062
Posted: Wed May  2 15:49:00 1984
Date-Received: Fri, 4-May-84 06:44:10 EDT
References: <1388@dartvax.UUCP>, <444@ihlts.UUCP> <1406@dartvax.UUCP>
Organization: Qubix Graphic Systems, Saratoga, CA
Lines: 13

"Menagerie" is the only episode in which McCoy, a medical officer, is
given any authority. (BTW, both he and Giotto were Lt. Cmdrs.) Apart
from that, conn usually went Kirk, Spock, Scott, Sulu, DeSalle (because
Sulu wasn't on board, remember?) ...

One plausible reason for Uhura not having the conn is that she wasn't a
line officer as was Sulu (despite his service red uniform - I miss
those), nor could she pull rank on DeSalle. I guess Giotto was just a
temporary assignee.
-- 
				The Ice Floe of Larry Bickford
				{decvax,ihnp4,ucbvax}!{decwrl,sun}!qubix!lab
				decwrl!qubix!lab@Berkeley.ARPA

Message-ID: <455@ihlts.UUCP>
Date: Mon, 7-May-84 13:20:32 EDT
Article-I.D.: ihlts.455
Posted: Mon May  7 13:20:32 1984
Date-Received: Tue, 8-May-84 00:34:25 EDT
References: <1388@dartvax.UUCP> <19800004@uiucuxc.UUCP>
Organization: AT&T Bell Labs, Naperville, IL
Lines: 17

Actually, in "The Menagerie" Spock did not 'release command' to McCoy.
He surrendered himself for arrest on the charge of mutiny, but McCoy
did not take command.  But when Kirk and Mendez are beamed aboard
Enterprise from the starbase shuttle, someone says to Kirk, "Transferring
command to you."  Who was that?  Was it Sulu?  I won't be able to check
my videotapes until tonight.

I think it would make the most sense just to say that the order of succession
to command would depend not just on rank and division but mostly on command
experience and ability.  Thus (after Kirk) Spock would have the most command
experience followed by Scott, Sulu, and DeSalle.  McCoy probably has no
command training.  Kirk does refer to command school now and then, so it
seems to me that training specifically for starship command would be one of
the prime factors under consideration here.
--
	"Sorry, neither!"
	Roger Noe		ihnp4!ihlts!rjnoe

Message-ID: <3676@yale-comix.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 8-May-84 13:22:35 EDT
Article-I.D.: yale-com.3676
Posted: Tue May  8 13:22:35 1984
Date-Received: Wed, 9-May-84 03:12:34 EDT
References: <1388@dartvax.UUCP> <19800004@uiucuxc.UUCP>, <455@ihlts.UUCP>
Organization: Yale University CS Dept., New Haven CT
Lines: 10

	I saw Part One of "The Menagerie" last night and can provide
	the final answer to this command question. When Spock surrendered
	himself he said, to McCoy, something to the effect of "As senior
	officer present".  He then proceeded to inform Lt. Hanson that he
	was in "operational command". It was Hanson that turned over command
	to Kirk.  Obviously in this episode, a clear distinction is made
	between seniority and the ability to command the ship.

			 Andy

Message-ID: <216@jett.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 8-May-84 17:51:10 EDT
Article-I.D.: jett.216
Posted: Tue May  8 17:51:10 1984
Date-Received: Wed, 9-May-84 07:37:26 EDT
Organization: Jett Unix System, Huntsville, AL
Lines: 7


I definatly remember an episode where Checkov takes command.
Am I wrong?  I have not had a chance to research it, but this
seems the appropriate time to bring it up.

	- Linwood Varney (Jett Unix System, Huntsville, AL)
	  {ihnp4|clyde|sdcrdcf}!akgua!jett!linwood

Message-ID: <747@ihuxp.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 9-May-84 13:45:54 EDT
Article-I.D.: ihuxp.747
Posted: Wed May  9 13:45:54 1984
Date-Received: Thu, 10-May-84 00:10:52 EDT
References: <1388@dartvax.UUCP> <19800004@uiucuxc.UUCP>, <455@ihlts.UUCP>, <3676@yale-comix.UUCP>
Organization: AT&T Bell Labs, Naperville, IL
Lines: 12


Wouldn't the correct quote be:

   "I'm a doctor, not a command officer"


Here Mousey, Mousey, Mousey

Walt Pesch
AT&T TEchnologies
ihnp4!ihuxp!wbpesch