Message-ID: <170@afinitc.UUCP>
Date: Mon, 6-Feb-84 12:20:21 EST
Article-I.D.: afinitc.170
Posted: Mon Feb  6 12:20:21 1984
Date-Received: Thu, 9-Feb-84 02:47:28 EST
Organization: Affinitec, St. Louis MO
Lines: 20


     We are presently looking for a logic analyzer for use in our software
engineering department.  Units being considered are:

     HP 1630
     Dolch 64300
     Nicolet NPC-764
     Tektronix 1240

     I would appreciate hearing from anyone who has had experience with any
of these analyzers.  Please include information on what processors the unit
is used on.  As well as any feedback you may have about the software
analysis features of the unit.

               Rick Moll
               ..!ihnp4!afinitc!rbm

               Affinitec
               2252 Welsch Ind. Ct.
               St. Louis, MO 63146

Message-ID: <1621@tekig1.UUCP>
Date: Sun, 22-Apr-84 13:58:44 EST
Article-I.D.: tekig1.1621
Posted: Sun Apr 22 13:58:44 1984
Date-Received: Thu, 26-Apr-84 01:20:38 EST
Organization: Tektronix, Beaverton OR
Lines: 20

X
     Well, one thing that I think would be nice to see on a logic analyzer would
be a couple of 16, 20, 24, and 40 pin connectors on the analyzer that could be
attached to a ribbon cable.  Just unplug the IC, plug the ribbon cable into the
board under test, plug the IC back in, and tell the la which pins you are really
interested in displaying.  This would stop the rats nest of a dozen micro clips,
all attached to the same chip.  This same idea could work with a glomper clip,
from the top, and the same method of giving ALL the pins to the la.  It would
make 'well, i dunnow, maybe your right, what is the interrupt line doing?,' and
the fun process of trying to get a clip in around that little leg.  Just tell
the silly machine to show me that pin!  Now building that mux inside the box is
going to take work, but I think the users would love it.  (let me hear votes on
that one, if you would)
     One other point, watch out for the kinds of clips you get with the thing.
Ive used an HP analyzer, (no offense intended), where the clip was a small tube
with the actual connector extruded from the end.  The tube was metal, with paint
to insulate it from adjacent pins.  The paint quickly wore off and we kept 
shorting pins together.
Don Taylor
tektronix!tekig1!dont

Message-ID: <2479@watcgl.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 26-Apr-84 10:44:57 EST
Article-I.D.: watcgl.2479
Posted: Thu Apr 26 10:44:57 1984
Date-Received: Fri, 27-Apr-84 03:05:45 EST
References: <1621@tekig1.UUCP>
Organization: U of Waterloo, Ontario
Lines: 9

I think the idea of a 40-pin cable running to a prewired glomper clip
(or socket that sits between the processor and the board) is a wonderful
idea.  Providing a hardware MUX that allows you to select between all
those signals under software control would be expensive, but just
buffering the signals and then feeding them to a manual crosspoint switch
shouldn't cost too much.  And sticking pins into a crosspoint switch is
a LOT easier and less error-prone than moving tiny clips on an inaccessible
PC board.
The only thing is, I want more than 40 pins.

Message-ID: <736@ihuxx.UUCP>
Date: Mon, 30-Apr-84 19:38:40 EDT
Article-I.D.: ihuxx.736
Posted: Mon Apr 30 19:38:40 1984
Date-Received: Tue, 1-May-84 19:03:23 EDT
References: <1621@tekig1.UUCP> <2479@watcgl.UUCP>
Organization: AT&T Bell Labs, Naperville, IL
Lines: 34

Sitting to my left is a Tetronix DAS 9100 Series Digital Analysis
System. (It sez so on the cover.)  The straight hardware type I
share the office with just got it a couple of weeks ago, and it
looks like everything you want.  It has room for something like six
expansion cards (data acquisition and pattern generator modules), with
each module accepting up to 4 probes, and up to 32 channels.  These
data acquisition probes, or pods, are, themselves, quasi-intelligent,
and can be fitted with several types of connectors.  Sorry, the ones
I've seen are separate clips per channel or logic line.  There is
the capability for extensive mapping of probe input to logical
display ordering and location, and of mapping physical channel or
logic line to logical line.  There also exists a complex symbolic
definition, labeling, and display capability.  And they provide a
micro-cassette with directory file maintenance to save these complex
setup configurations.  Overall, a beautiful little machine that I
would have given my eye teeth for a couple of years ago when we were
stuffing Unix on an 8086 with custom memory managment.  The catch?
Well, aside from the learning curve for the operator, it's cost
(surprise, right?)  This critter can run from $16,000 or so on up.
If you're interested, however, please contact Tektronix--I've spent
enough time on this.

(For the legal types....)

The description and information provided herein is an unsolicited
submission by yours truly, and as such represents only my own opinions
and experience.  Statements made herein by me are in no way to be
construed as reflecting the opinion or endorsement of either my
employer or my contract employer.

			Viel spass,

				Dave Ihnat
				ihuxx!ignatz

Message-ID: <6373@lanl-a.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 1-May-84 16:13:56 EDT
Article-I.D.: lanl-a.6373
Posted: Tue May  1 16:13:56 1984
Date-Received: Wed, 2-May-84 06:05:41 EDT
References: <1621@tekig1.UUCP> <2479@watcgl.UUCP>, <736@ihuxx.UUCP>
Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory
Lines: 33


  We use four different analyzers: HP-1615, Biomation K100D, Tektronix
9100 DAS, and the HP-1630D.  The HP-1615 is old (about 5 yrs) but was
the leading logic analyzer when it came out (my opinion).  The K100D
was one of the first 100Mhz analyzers but is best used for timing
analysis (it only has 16 channels). Biomation does have newer models
(k500?) that offer a lot more capability.  
  The two I would like to compare are the 9100 and the 1630D.  The 9100
is a large, highly expandable, unit.  We have 64 state channels on it
and 16 timing channels (100 Mhz).  You can get disassemblers for it for
most micros but we don't have any.  These disassemblers cam be expensive
and have to be added to the cost of the analyzer.  We consider this unit
to be our 'cadillac' analyzer.  It is not very easy to set up and use
especially after you haven't used it for a month or so.  The set up features
are somewhat clumsy, the pods use ribbon cable from the unit to the pod
(yuk!) and these pods have a spring loaded clip for the ground connection
which is awkard to use.  The cassette unit works well for saving setup
parameters and state listings but you cannot save waveforms.
  The 1630D has 43 state channels, 16 of which can also be used as timing
channels (100 Mhz). Its cost is about $10K (much less than the 9100).  
It is much easer to use than the 9100 in my opinion.  The screen is brighter
and easier to read.  The probe pods use round cables which are much easier
to work with.  The cassette is the micro-cassette unit that HP sells with
their 41C series of calculators using the HP-IL interface.  Even though 
it is not an integral part of the analyzer it is small enough to not
be a hindrence.  The cassette stores all setups, state listings and
waveforms.  We have the Z80 dissassembler and are very pleased with it.
The cost of the disassembler hardware was $1200.
   Another nice aspect of the 1630D is that it is portable (lightweight)
which to 9100 is not.

l
m

Message-ID: <412@ittral.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 2-May-84 17:30:14 EDT
Article-I.D.: ittral.412
Posted: Wed May  2 17:30:14 1984
Date-Received: Fri, 4-May-84 02:15:23 EDT
References: <1621@tekig1.UUCP> <2479@watcgl.UUCP> ihuxx.736
Lines: 35


I too have used a Tektronix 9100 and CANNOT recommend that  anyone else
suffer through with it.  On paper it really does look great but in
practice it isn't such a great machine.  We constantly had problems
with it triggering on the wrong state.  (You would tell it to trigger on
XYZ and it would trigger on ABC.)   It is also extremely slow in writing
the information to the screen so that if you want to take multiple
traces in rapid succession it doesn't keep up.

We have recently gotten some Hewlett Packard 1630 analyzers and they are
almost all you could ask for.  They are fast in responding to keystrokes.
(The Tektronix almost always fell behind when I tried to rapidly do
a number of commands.)   It has never false triggered.  It has a number of
nice features such as a histogram mode that shows you what percentage of 
time is spent executing what part of the code.  (Great for software
optimization)  It will also do timing analysis like the Tek.  It also
has a cassete drive available for storing setups and the newest version
(1630G) will operate with a microfloppy and contains EEPROM that
allows you to store one setup without the microfloppy present.

The Tek does have a couple of advantages in that you can get some
very high speed interface pods (with a corresponding loss of 
logic channels) and it allows you to mix high and low speed
pods.  It also has an optional state generator available.

Given all of the above though,  I would rather pay twice as much and
get the HP than to have to use the Tek.  The beauty of it is though
that they are comparable in price.  The HP1630D with cassette drive
and 43 channels costs a little over $11k.  I seem to remember the 
9100 being similarly priced although I don't have my catalog with me.

I have no axe to grind or affiliation with either Tektronix or Hewlett-
Packard.

                                      Paul Holzworth

Message-ID: <6453@lanl-a.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 3-May-84 12:34:35 EDT
Article-I.D.: lanl-a.6453
Posted: Thu May  3 12:34:35 1984
Date-Received: Fri, 4-May-84 05:28:19 EDT
References: <1621@tekig1.UUCP> <2479@watcgl.UUCP> ihuxx.736, <412@ittral.UUCP>
Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory
Lines: 10


   The new HP1630G logic analyzer is essentially a 1630D with more state
channels.  I think HP is offering it because the 1630D didn't 
handle the 16 bit micro disassember job adequately.  Thus the 1630G with
65 state channels (if I remember right) will take care of this drawback
The 1630G however only has  8
timing (100Mhz) channels.  The 1630D however does do a great job with
the 8 bit micros.
  The 1630G is upgradable from the 1630D for about $3K.

Message-ID: <698@glasgow.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 24-May-84 16:26:21 EDT
Article-I.D.: glasgow.698
Posted: Thu May 24 16:26:21 1984
Date-Received: Sat, 12-May-84 12:49:01 EDT
References: <1621@tekig1.UUCP> <2479@watcgl.UUCP>, <736@ihuxx.UUCP> <6373@lanl-a.UUCP>
Organization: Comp. Sci., Univ. of Glasgow, Scotland
Lines: 21

I have recently surveyed and purchased a logic analyser in the U.K.
The H-P 1630D came out as best value for money (about 9000pounds including
tape system and a selection of disassemblers).
It is very easy to use.
Links with a storage scope to capture and display  a waveform during a trace.
Could be used with a micro for data collection & external control via the 
488 bus (we havent tried this).
The 'personality' modules for interfacing to specific cpus are very expensive
but could be attractive in a commercial environment - we intend to build our
own. Hooking up via the spring clips is ok but not wonderful - lack of
insulation on the probe body is a mystery.
A big plus is the availability this summer (it had better be !) of an internal
expansion board to give a total of 63 state channels - 25MHz of which 16 can be
used for timing - 100MHz.
Glitch detection (on the timing channels by halving the number available) is 
useful and anythig similar on the opposition cost a lot more.

Now someone tell me that I made the wrong choice and should have bought brand X
with twice the goodies for half the money.

ray herman, Dept Computing Sc., Univ. of Glasgow. -   !gl!rh