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| Re: Star Trek: Nemesis Ending & Why It Killed TNG Movies Explained [message #426335 is a reply to message #426334] |
Thu, 09 January 2025 16:49   |
anim8rFSK
Messages: 264
Registered: July 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Ubiquitous <weberm@polaris.net> wrote:
> The fourth and final Star Trek: The Next Generation movie, Star Trek:
> Nemesis, put a nail in the coffin of what wasat the timea dying Star Trek
> franchise. Star Trek: Nemesis saw Captain Jean-Luc Picard (Patrick Stewart)
> confront a younger clone of himself,
That doesn’t look anything like him
Shinzon (Tom Hardy), who had been
> created by Romulans to secretly replace Picard.
Who he doesn’t look anything like
Shinzon had been discarded to
> the mines of Remus
Hey! Look! They got the name of the planet wrong!
before becoming the new Romulan Praetor to exact his
> revenge. Star Trek: Nemesis' subplot featured the discovery of B-4 (Brent
It took Spiner almost 37 seconds to come up with the name of that
character, but he did break for coffee in the middle of that.
> Spiner), an inferior Soong-type android built before Lt. Commander Data
> (Brent Spiner).
>
> In theory, Star Trek: Nemesis' high-stakes cinematic action, with a
> screenplay and story by Academy Award-nominated John Logan with Brent Spiner,
> was designed to draw casual moviegoers. Further, Star Trek: Nemesis' themes
> of identity and duality in its Picard and Data storylines were supposed to
> create that cerebral Star Trek touch. In practice, Star Trek: Nemesis fell
> apart by packing its 1 hour and 57 minute runtime with more style than
> substance. Star Trek: Insurrection's lukewarm reception soured suits on
> Jonathan Frakes taking the helm again, but franchise newcomer Stuart Baird
> directed Nemesis like a Star Trek movie that was afraid to be Star Trek,
> leaving Star Trek: The Next Generation's beloved ensemble rudderless and
> inconsistent.
>
> Star Trek: Nemesis Ending Explained
> Captain Picard And Lt. Commander Data Team Up To Destroy Shinzon
> Star Trek: Nemesis ends with a face-off between the USS Enterprise-E and
> Shinzon's massive starship, the Scimitar. Shinzon vowed to take revenge by
> using deadly thalaron radiation to wipe out all life on Earth, which the
> Enterprise must prevent at all costs. Romulan Commander Donatra (Dina Meyer)
> arrives to help the Enterprise, not Shinzon, citing "internal security".
> While the Scimitar is distracted by Donatra's Warbirds, Counselor Deanna Troi
> (Marina Sirtis) empathically locates Shinzon's cloaked ship, and opens fire.
> The Enterprise is outgunned, however, and Remans board the ship to seize what
> Shinzon truly wants: Captain Picard.
>
> There have been thirteen Star Trek movies over the last 40 years, but which
> is the boldest big-screen adventure to go where no man has gone before?
>
> Rather than suffer more casualties, Picard yields to Reman capture,
Because that’s what Picard does best. Surrender.
while
> Data crosses the space between the Enterprise and Scimitar's open hulls. As
> the thalaron emitter charges, Shinzon and Jean-Luc meet in single combat,
> with Picard victoriously spearing Shinzon, who's consumed by his own hubris.
> Data places an emergency transport key on his captain and beams Picard back
> to the Enterprise, before Data destroys the thalaraon emitter, sacrificing
> himself in the process. Data's memory is celebrated on the Enterprise-E, and
> Donatra promises Picard a friend in the Romulan Empire.
>
> Shinzon's determination to find and unleash the darkness in Picard's heart is
> his own downfall,
>
> At the end of Star Trek: Nemesis, Shinzon's determination to find and unleash
> the darkness in Picard's heart is his own downfall. Shinzon and Picard share
> DNA and a sense of justice for the downtrodden, but Shinzon insists that
> Jean-Luc would be as megalomaniacal as Shinzon is had Picard also been raised
> in the darkness of the Reman mines. Picard's equally steadfast insistence
> that Shinzon is capable of doing good only proves how alike they are, instead
> of supporting the movie's stated point that their backgrounds make them
> different.
>
> At the end of Star Trek: Nemesis, Lieutenant Commander Data heroically
> sacrifices himself to destroy Shinzon's thalaron emitter and save all life on
> Earth. Data's act of bravery ensures the Federation's survival, but
> ultimately contributes to Star Trek: Nemesis' reputation as a franchise-
> killer. Compared to Spock's (Leonard Nimoy) death in Star Trek II: The Wrath
> of Khan, Data's death rings hollow. Unlike The Wrath of Khan building to
> Spock's sacrifice, Nemesis doesn't have a narrative throughline that supports
> Data's decision, and his replacement is already lined up in B-4.
>
> Datas death in Star Trek: Nemesis was supposed to provide the film with an
> emotional climax, but it was an unworthy end to a much beloved character.
>
> Brent Spiner co-wrote Star Trek: Nemesis' story with John Logan, creating his
> own graceful exit from Star Trek by killing off Data. As an android, Data
> wasn't supposed to age, and Spiner's advancing years were becoming more
> difficult to mask with Data's makeup. Star Trek: Nemesis ended with B-4 in
> possession of Data's memories on the USS Enterprise-E, however, leaving the
> door open for Spiner's return in a future Star Trek: The Next Generation
> movie.
>
> Star Trek: Nemesis set up a potential fifth Star Trek: The Next Generation
> movie that never happened. Conceptualized by Nemesis screenwriter John Logan
> and Brent Spiner, the final TNG movie would have been a crossover between
> Star Trek: The Next Generation, Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, and Star Trek:
> Voyager. Characters from all three TNG-era Star Trek series were slated to
> join forces against a massive threat that only a team-up between Star Trek's
> finest could thwart.
OK, the characters in VOYAGER can be called many things but “finest“ is
definitely not one of them.
Just as Star Trek Generations passed the franchise to
> the TNG cast, the Nemesis follow-up would have led to DS9 or Voyager movies.
>
> Waning interest in Star Trek as a franchise, low box-office returns, and poor
> fan reception led to Star Trek: Nemesis ultimately killing future Star Trek:
> The Next Generation movies. As Star Trek: Enterprise's pivot to earlier in
> the Star Trek timeline suggested Star Trek might be done with the 24th
> century, Star Trek: Nemesis opened to a disappointing US$18.5 million box
> office. Ticket sales dropped 76% for Nemesis' second weekend, indicating fans
> were dissatisfied with the latest TNG movie. Star Trek: Nemesis closed three
> months later, after grossing a woeful $43.25 million domestically.
>
> ************************************************************ *********
> Film Title US & Canada Worldwide Budget
> ---------- ----------- --------- ------
> Star Trek Generations $75,671,125 $118,071,125 $38 million
> Star Trek: First Contact $92,027,888 $146,027,888 $46 million
> Star Trek: Insurrection $70,187,658 $112,587,658 $70 million
> Star Trek: Nemesis $43,254,409 $67,336,470 $60 million
> ************************************************************ *********
>
> Seven years passed before Star Trek returned to cinemas with J.J. Abrams'
> 2009 reboot. The Kelvin Timeline Star Trek movies were a change of pace that
> combined Abrams' fresh take with nostalgia for Star Trek: The Original
> Series. Although Star Trek Into Darkness received mixed reviews, and Star
> Trek Beyond was an underrated gem, Abrams' Star Trek movies renewed interest
> in the franchise. The Kelvin Timeline paved the way for Star Trek's return to
> televisionand a chance to fix the mistakes made by Star Trek: Nemesis.
>
> Star Trek: Picard fixed Star Trek: Nemesis' mistakes by returning to themes
> that Nemesis botched in its delivery. Backed up as a positronic ghost,
> Lieutenant Commander Data asked Admiral Picard to grant Data's ultimate wish:
> the universal human experience of death. By reframing death as the final step
> in becoming human, Star Trek: Picard gave Data's death the meaning it lacked
> in Star Trek: Nemesis. Data's legacy lived on in the highly advanced synth,
> Soji Asha (Isa Briones), instead of B-4, while Picard's new mirror was Jean-
> Luc and Beverly Crusher's son, Jack Crusher (Ed Speleers), instead of
> Shinzon.
>
> Star Trek: Picard followed through with Commander Donatra's promise that
> Jean-Luc Picard had a friend in the Romulan Empire. Admiral Picard had a
> personal investment in evacuating Romulus before the Romulan supernova
> destroyed the planet in 2387; this promise ultimately cost Picard his career
> when Starfleet called his resignation bluff.
>
> Star Trek: Picard season 3 reunited the Star Trek: The Next Generation cast
> for the proper send-off that Star Trek: Nemesis failed to give them. Picard
> gave each member of the former USS Enterprise-E crew a spotlight, especially
> the characters that Nemesis sidelined, like Captain Worf and Beverly Crusher.
> Deanna Troi had more agency in her few Star Trek: Picard appearances than
> ever before. Even Data's return was an evolution of his quest for humanity.
> Star Trek: Picard allowed Star Trek: The Next Generation to end with the
> dignity it deserved instead of being killed by Star Trek: Nemesis.
>
>
> --
> Let's go Brandon!
>
>
>
--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.
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| Re: Star Trek: Nemesis Ending & Why It Killed TNG Movies Explained [message #426336 is a reply to message #426335] |
Thu, 09 January 2025 18:49 |
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Originally posted by: Rhino
On 2025-01-09 4:49 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
> Ubiquitous <weberm@polaris.net> wrote:
>> The fourth and final Star Trek: The Next Generation movie, Star Trek:
>> Nemesis, put a nail in the coffin of what wasat the timea dying Star Trek
>> franchise. Star Trek: Nemesis saw Captain Jean-Luc Picard (Patrick Stewart)
>> confront a younger clone of himself,
>
> That doesn’t look anything like him
>
>
> Shinzon (Tom Hardy), who had been
>> created by Romulans to secretly replace Picard.
>
> Who he doesn’t look anything like
>
>
> Shinzon had been discarded to
>> the mines of Remus
>
> Hey! Look! They got the name of the planet wrong!
>
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the Romulan Empire centered on two
planets, Romulus and Remus, which (probably not coincidentally) are the
names of the founder of Ancient Rome here on Earth?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romulus_and_Remus
I haven't seen all of the movies or all of the series but isn't a two
planet base for the Romulan Empire mentioned in one of them? Or am I
muddling mythology and Star Trek lore?
>
> before becoming the new Romulan Praetor to exact his
>> revenge. Star Trek: Nemesis' subplot featured the discovery of B-4 (Brent
>
> It took Spiner almost 37 seconds to come up with the name of that
> character, but he did break for coffee in the middle of that.
>
>
>> Spiner), an inferior Soong-type android built before Lt. Commander Data
>> (Brent Spiner).
>>
>> In theory, Star Trek: Nemesis' high-stakes cinematic action, with a
>> screenplay and story by Academy Award-nominated John Logan with Brent Spiner,
>> was designed to draw casual moviegoers. Further, Star Trek: Nemesis' themes
>> of identity and duality in its Picard and Data storylines were supposed to
>> create that cerebral Star Trek touch. In practice, Star Trek: Nemesis fell
>> apart by packing its 1 hour and 57 minute runtime with more style than
>> substance. Star Trek: Insurrection's lukewarm reception soured suits on
>> Jonathan Frakes taking the helm again, but franchise newcomer Stuart Baird
>> directed Nemesis like a Star Trek movie that was afraid to be Star Trek,
>> leaving Star Trek: The Next Generation's beloved ensemble rudderless and
>> inconsistent.
>>
>> Star Trek: Nemesis Ending Explained
>> Captain Picard And Lt. Commander Data Team Up To Destroy Shinzon
>> Star Trek: Nemesis ends with a face-off between the USS Enterprise-E and
>> Shinzon's massive starship, the Scimitar. Shinzon vowed to take revenge by
>> using deadly thalaron radiation to wipe out all life on Earth, which the
>> Enterprise must prevent at all costs. Romulan Commander Donatra (Dina Meyer)
>> arrives to help the Enterprise, not Shinzon, citing "internal security".
>> While the Scimitar is distracted by Donatra's Warbirds, Counselor Deanna Troi
>> (Marina Sirtis) empathically locates Shinzon's cloaked ship, and opens fire.
>> The Enterprise is outgunned, however, and Remans board the ship to seize what
>> Shinzon truly wants: Captain Picard.
>>
>> There have been thirteen Star Trek movies over the last 40 years, but which
>> is the boldest big-screen adventure to go where no man has gone before?
>>
>> Rather than suffer more casualties, Picard yields to Reman capture,
>
> Because that’s what Picard does best. Surrender.
>
>
> while
>> Data crosses the space between the Enterprise and Scimitar's open hulls. As
>> the thalaron emitter charges, Shinzon and Jean-Luc meet in single combat,
>> with Picard victoriously spearing Shinzon, who's consumed by his own hubris.
>> Data places an emergency transport key on his captain and beams Picard back
>> to the Enterprise, before Data destroys the thalaraon emitter, sacrificing
>> himself in the process. Data's memory is celebrated on the Enterprise-E, and
>> Donatra promises Picard a friend in the Romulan Empire.
>>
>> Shinzon's determination to find and unleash the darkness in Picard's heart is
>> his own downfall,
>>
>> At the end of Star Trek: Nemesis, Shinzon's determination to find and unleash
>> the darkness in Picard's heart is his own downfall. Shinzon and Picard share
>> DNA and a sense of justice for the downtrodden, but Shinzon insists that
>> Jean-Luc would be as megalomaniacal as Shinzon is had Picard also been raised
>> in the darkness of the Reman mines. Picard's equally steadfast insistence
>> that Shinzon is capable of doing good only proves how alike they are, instead
>> of supporting the movie's stated point that their backgrounds make them
>> different.
>>
>> At the end of Star Trek: Nemesis, Lieutenant Commander Data heroically
>> sacrifices himself to destroy Shinzon's thalaron emitter and save all life on
>> Earth. Data's act of bravery ensures the Federation's survival, but
>> ultimately contributes to Star Trek: Nemesis' reputation as a franchise-
>> killer. Compared to Spock's (Leonard Nimoy) death in Star Trek II: The Wrath
>> of Khan, Data's death rings hollow. Unlike The Wrath of Khan building to
>> Spock's sacrifice, Nemesis doesn't have a narrative throughline that supports
>> Data's decision, and his replacement is already lined up in B-4.
>>
>> Datas death in Star Trek: Nemesis was supposed to provide the film with an
>> emotional climax, but it was an unworthy end to a much beloved character.
>>
>> Brent Spiner co-wrote Star Trek: Nemesis' story with John Logan, creating his
>> own graceful exit from Star Trek by killing off Data. As an android, Data
>> wasn't supposed to age, and Spiner's advancing years were becoming more
>> difficult to mask with Data's makeup. Star Trek: Nemesis ended with B-4 in
>> possession of Data's memories on the USS Enterprise-E, however, leaving the
>> door open for Spiner's return in a future Star Trek: The Next Generation
>> movie.
>>
>> Star Trek: Nemesis set up a potential fifth Star Trek: The Next Generation
>> movie that never happened. Conceptualized by Nemesis screenwriter John Logan
>> and Brent Spiner, the final TNG movie would have been a crossover between
>> Star Trek: The Next Generation, Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, and Star Trek:
>> Voyager. Characters from all three TNG-era Star Trek series were slated to
>> join forces against a massive threat that only a team-up between Star Trek's
>> finest could thwart.
>
> OK, the characters in VOYAGER can be called many things but “finest“ is
> definitely not one of them.
>
>
> Just as Star Trek Generations passed the franchise to
>> the TNG cast, the Nemesis follow-up would have led to DS9 or Voyager movies.
>>
>> Waning interest in Star Trek as a franchise, low box-office returns, and poor
>> fan reception led to Star Trek: Nemesis ultimately killing future Star Trek:
>> The Next Generation movies. As Star Trek: Enterprise's pivot to earlier in
>> the Star Trek timeline suggested Star Trek might be done with the 24th
>> century, Star Trek: Nemesis opened to a disappointing US$18.5 million box
>> office. Ticket sales dropped 76% for Nemesis' second weekend, indicating fans
>> were dissatisfied with the latest TNG movie. Star Trek: Nemesis closed three
>> months later, after grossing a woeful $43.25 million domestically.
>>
>> ************************************************************ *********
>> Film Title US & Canada Worldwide Budget
>> ---------- ----------- --------- ------
>> Star Trek Generations $75,671,125 $118,071,125 $38 million
>> Star Trek: First Contact $92,027,888 $146,027,888 $46 million
>> Star Trek: Insurrection $70,187,658 $112,587,658 $70 million
>> Star Trek: Nemesis $43,254,409 $67,336,470 $60 million
>> ************************************************************ *********
>>
>> Seven years passed before Star Trek returned to cinemas with J.J. Abrams'
>> 2009 reboot. The Kelvin Timeline Star Trek movies were a change of pace that
>> combined Abrams' fresh take with nostalgia for Star Trek: The Original
>> Series. Although Star Trek Into Darkness received mixed reviews, and Star
>> Trek Beyond was an underrated gem, Abrams' Star Trek movies renewed interest
>> in the franchise. The Kelvin Timeline paved the way for Star Trek's return to
>> televisionand a chance to fix the mistakes made by Star Trek: Nemesis.
>>
>> Star Trek: Picard fixed Star Trek: Nemesis' mistakes by returning to themes
>> that Nemesis botched in its delivery. Backed up as a positronic ghost,
>> Lieutenant Commander Data asked Admiral Picard to grant Data's ultimate wish:
>> the universal human experience of death. By reframing death as the final step
>> in becoming human, Star Trek: Picard gave Data's death the meaning it lacked
>> in Star Trek: Nemesis. Data's legacy lived on in the highly advanced synth,
>> Soji Asha (Isa Briones), instead of B-4, while Picard's new mirror was Jean-
>> Luc and Beverly Crusher's son, Jack Crusher (Ed Speleers), instead of
>> Shinzon.
>>
>> Star Trek: Picard followed through with Commander Donatra's promise that
>> Jean-Luc Picard had a friend in the Romulan Empire. Admiral Picard had a
>> personal investment in evacuating Romulus before the Romulan supernova
>> destroyed the planet in 2387; this promise ultimately cost Picard his career
>> when Starfleet called his resignation bluff.
>>
>> Star Trek: Picard season 3 reunited the Star Trek: The Next Generation cast
>> for the proper send-off that Star Trek: Nemesis failed to give them. Picard
>> gave each member of the former USS Enterprise-E crew a spotlight, especially
>> the characters that Nemesis sidelined, like Captain Worf and Beverly Crusher.
>> Deanna Troi had more agency in her few Star Trek: Picard appearances than
>> ever before. Even Data's return was an evolution of his quest for humanity.
>> Star Trek: Picard allowed Star Trek: The Next Generation to end with the
>> dignity it deserved instead of being killed by Star Trek: Nemesis.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Let's go Brandon!
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
--
Rhino
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| Re: Star Trek: Nemesis Ending & Why It Killed TNG Movies Explained [message #426337 is a reply to message #426336] |
Thu, 09 January 2025 20:36 |
anim8rFSK
Messages: 264
Registered: July 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
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Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
> On 2025-01-09 4:49 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
>> Ubiquitous <weberm@polaris.net> wrote:
>>> The fourth and final Star Trek: The Next Generation movie, Star Trek:
>>> Nemesis, put a nail in the coffin of what wasat the timea dying Star Trek
>>> franchise. Star Trek: Nemesis saw Captain Jean-Luc Picard (Patrick Stewart)
>>> confront a younger clone of himself,
>>
>> That doesn’t look anything like him
>>
>>
>> Shinzon (Tom Hardy), who had been
>>> created by Romulans to secretly replace Picard.
>>
>> Who he doesn’t look anything like
>>
>>
>> Shinzon had been discarded to
>>> the mines of Remus
>>
>> Hey! Look! They got the name of the planet wrong!
>>
> Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the Romulan Empire centered on two
> planets, Romulus and Remus, which (probably not coincidentally) are the
> names of the founder of Ancient Rome here on Earth?
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romulus_and_Remus
>
> I haven't seen all of the movies or all of the series but isn't a two
> planet base for the Romulan Empire mentioned in one of them? Or am I
> muddling mythology and Star Trek lore?
The first time we ever see the Romulans in Star Trek TOS “ Balance of
Terror“ we also see this map which subsequent tricks got wrong
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSELhX7 B6AKQfU2PsmyGRbkM_pXBALMXKlEsw&s
Note that the name of the second planet is ROMII.
“Remus“ is just another TNG mistake.
There are multiple fan wanks for this. One is that Remus is the third
planet in the system. The one they don’t talk about. The other is that
Remus is an alternate name for Romii. But the real answer is the TNG just
got it wrong.
>>
>> before becoming the new Romulan Praetor to exact his
>>> revenge. Star Trek: Nemesis' subplot featured the discovery of B-4 (Brent
>>
>> It took Spiner almost 37 seconds to come up with the name of that
>> character, but he did break for coffee in the middle of that.
>>
>>
>>> Spiner), an inferior Soong-type android built before Lt. Commander Data
>>> (Brent Spiner).
>>>
>>> In theory, Star Trek: Nemesis' high-stakes cinematic action, with a
>>> screenplay and story by Academy Award-nominated John Logan with Brent Spiner,
>>> was designed to draw casual moviegoers. Further, Star Trek: Nemesis' themes
>>> of identity and duality in its Picard and Data storylines were supposed to
>>> create that cerebral Star Trek touch. In practice, Star Trek: Nemesis fell
>>> apart by packing its 1 hour and 57 minute runtime with more style than
>>> substance. Star Trek: Insurrection's lukewarm reception soured suits on
>>> Jonathan Frakes taking the helm again, but franchise newcomer Stuart Baird
>>> directed Nemesis like a Star Trek movie that was afraid to be Star Trek,
>>> leaving Star Trek: The Next Generation's beloved ensemble rudderless and
>>> inconsistent.
>>>
>>> Star Trek: Nemesis Ending Explained
>>> Captain Picard And Lt. Commander Data Team Up To Destroy Shinzon
>>> Star Trek: Nemesis ends with a face-off between the USS Enterprise-E and
>>> Shinzon's massive starship, the Scimitar. Shinzon vowed to take revenge by
>>> using deadly thalaron radiation to wipe out all life on Earth, which the
>>> Enterprise must prevent at all costs. Romulan Commander Donatra (Dina Meyer)
>>> arrives to help the Enterprise, not Shinzon, citing "internal security".
>>> While the Scimitar is distracted by Donatra's Warbirds, Counselor Deanna Troi
>>> (Marina Sirtis) empathically locates Shinzon's cloaked ship, and opens fire.
>>> The Enterprise is outgunned, however, and Remans board the ship to seize what
>>> Shinzon truly wants: Captain Picard.
>>>
>>> There have been thirteen Star Trek movies over the last 40 years, but which
>>> is the boldest big-screen adventure to go where no man has gone before?
>>>
>>> Rather than suffer more casualties, Picard yields to Reman capture,
>>
>> Because that’s what Picard does best. Surrender.
>>
>>
>> while
>>> Data crosses the space between the Enterprise and Scimitar's open hulls. As
>>> the thalaron emitter charges, Shinzon and Jean-Luc meet in single combat,
>>> with Picard victoriously spearing Shinzon, who's consumed by his own hubris.
>>> Data places an emergency transport key on his captain and beams Picard back
>>> to the Enterprise, before Data destroys the thalaraon emitter, sacrificing
>>> himself in the process. Data's memory is celebrated on the Enterprise-E, and
>>> Donatra promises Picard a friend in the Romulan Empire.
>>>
>>> Shinzon's determination to find and unleash the darkness in Picard's heart is
>>> his own downfall,
>>>
>>> At the end of Star Trek: Nemesis, Shinzon's determination to find and unleash
>>> the darkness in Picard's heart is his own downfall. Shinzon and Picard share
>>> DNA and a sense of justice for the downtrodden, but Shinzon insists that
>>> Jean-Luc would be as megalomaniacal as Shinzon is had Picard also been raised
>>> in the darkness of the Reman mines. Picard's equally steadfast insistence
>>> that Shinzon is capable of doing good only proves how alike they are, instead
>>> of supporting the movie's stated point that their backgrounds make them
>>> different.
>>>
>>> At the end of Star Trek: Nemesis, Lieutenant Commander Data heroically
>>> sacrifices himself to destroy Shinzon's thalaron emitter and save all life on
>>> Earth. Data's act of bravery ensures the Federation's survival, but
>>> ultimately contributes to Star Trek: Nemesis' reputation as a franchise-
>>> killer. Compared to Spock's (Leonard Nimoy) death in Star Trek II: The Wrath
>>> of Khan, Data's death rings hollow. Unlike The Wrath of Khan building to
>>> Spock's sacrifice, Nemesis doesn't have a narrative throughline that supports
>>> Data's decision, and his replacement is already lined up in B-4.
>>>
>>> Datas death in Star Trek: Nemesis was supposed to provide the film with an
>>> emotional climax, but it was an unworthy end to a much beloved character.
>>>
>>> Brent Spiner co-wrote Star Trek: Nemesis' story with John Logan, creating his
>>> own graceful exit from Star Trek by killing off Data. As an android, Data
>>> wasn't supposed to age, and Spiner's advancing years were becoming more
>>> difficult to mask with Data's makeup. Star Trek: Nemesis ended with B-4 in
>>> possession of Data's memories on the USS Enterprise-E, however, leaving the
>>> door open for Spiner's return in a future Star Trek: The Next Generation
>>> movie.
>>>
>>> Star Trek: Nemesis set up a potential fifth Star Trek: The Next Generation
>>> movie that never happened. Conceptualized by Nemesis screenwriter John Logan
>>> and Brent Spiner, the final TNG movie would have been a crossover between
>>> Star Trek: The Next Generation, Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, and Star Trek:
>>> Voyager. Characters from all three TNG-era Star Trek series were slated to
>>> join forces against a massive threat that only a team-up between Star Trek's
>>> finest could thwart.
>>
>> OK, the characters in VOYAGER can be called many things but “finest“ is
>> definitely not one of them.
>>
>>
>> Just as Star Trek Generations passed the franchise to
>>> the TNG cast, the Nemesis follow-up would have led to DS9 or Voyager movies.
>>>
>>> Waning interest in Star Trek as a franchise, low box-office returns, and poor
>>> fan reception led to Star Trek: Nemesis ultimately killing future Star Trek:
>>> The Next Generation movies. As Star Trek: Enterprise's pivot to earlier in
>>> the Star Trek timeline suggested Star Trek might be done with the 24th
>>> century, Star Trek: Nemesis opened to a disappointing US$18.5 million box
>>> office. Ticket sales dropped 76% for Nemesis' second weekend, indicating fans
>>> were dissatisfied with the latest TNG movie. Star Trek: Nemesis closed three
>>> months later, after grossing a woeful $43.25 million domestically.
>>>
>>> ************************************************************ *********
>>> Film Title US & Canada Worldwide Budget
>>> ---------- ----------- --------- ------
>>> Star Trek Generations $75,671,125 $118,071,125 $38 million
>>> Star Trek: First Contact $92,027,888 $146,027,888 $46 million
>>> Star Trek: Insurrection $70,187,658 $112,587,658 $70 million
>>> Star Trek: Nemesis $43,254,409 $67,336,470 $60 million
>>> ************************************************************ *********
>>>
>>> Seven years passed before Star Trek returned to cinemas with J.J. Abrams'
>>> 2009 reboot. The Kelvin Timeline Star Trek movies were a change of pace that
>>> combined Abrams' fresh take with nostalgia for Star Trek: The Original
>>> Series. Although Star Trek Into Darkness received mixed reviews, and Star
>>> Trek Beyond was an underrated gem, Abrams' Star Trek movies renewed interest
>>> in the franchise. The Kelvin Timeline paved the way for Star Trek's return to
>>> televisionand a chance to fix the mistakes made by Star Trek: Nemesis.
>>>
>>> Star Trek: Picard fixed Star Trek: Nemesis' mistakes by returning to themes
>>> that Nemesis botched in its delivery. Backed up as a positronic ghost,
>>> Lieutenant Commander Data asked Admiral Picard to grant Data's ultimate wish:
>>> the universal human experience of death. By reframing death as the final step
>>> in becoming human, Star Trek: Picard gave Data's death the meaning it lacked
>>> in Star Trek: Nemesis. Data's legacy lived on in the highly advanced synth,
>>> Soji Asha (Isa Briones), instead of B-4, while Picard's new mirror was Jean-
>>> Luc and Beverly Crusher's son, Jack Crusher (Ed Speleers), instead of
>>> Shinzon.
>>>
>>> Star Trek: Picard followed through with Commander Donatra's promise that
>>> Jean-Luc Picard had a friend in the Romulan Empire. Admiral Picard had a
>>> personal investment in evacuating Romulus before the Romulan supernova
>>> destroyed the planet in 2387; this promise ultimately cost Picard his career
>>> when Starfleet called his resignation bluff.
>>>
>>> Star Trek: Picard season 3 reunited the Star Trek: The Next Generation cast
>>> for the proper send-off that Star Trek: Nemesis failed to give them. Picard
>>> gave each member of the former USS Enterprise-E crew a spotlight, especially
>>> the characters that Nemesis sidelined, like Captain Worf and Beverly Crusher.
>>> Deanna Troi had more agency in her few Star Trek: Picard appearances than
>>> ever before. Even Data's return was an evolution of his quest for humanity.
>>> Star Trek: Picard allowed Star Trek: The Next Generation to end with the
>>> dignity it deserved instead of being killed by Star Trek: Nemesis.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Let's go Brandon!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.
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| Re: Star Trek: Nemesis Ending & Why It Killed TNG Movies Explained [message #426339 is a reply to message #426337] |
Thu, 09 January 2025 22:23 |
BTR1701
Messages: 35
Registered: May 2012
Karma: 0
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Member |
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anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
> Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>> On 2025-01-09 4:49 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
>>> Ubiquitous <weberm@polaris.net> wrote:
>>>> The fourth and final Star Trek: The Next Generation movie, Star Trek:
>>>> Nemesis, put a nail in the coffin of what wasat the timea dying Star Trek
>>>> franchise. Star Trek: Nemesis saw Captain Jean-Luc Picard (Patrick Stewart)
>>>> confront a younger clone of himself,
>>>
>>> That doesn’t look anything like him
>>>
>>>
>>> Shinzon (Tom Hardy), who had been
>>>> created by Romulans to secretly replace Picard.
>>>
>>> Who he doesn’t look anything like
>>>
>>>
>>> Shinzon had been discarded to
>>>> the mines of Remus
>>>
>>> Hey! Look! They got the name of the planet wrong!
>>>
>> Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the Romulan Empire centered on two
>> planets, Romulus and Remus, which (probably not coincidentally) are the
>> names of the founder of Ancient Rome here on Earth?
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romulus_and_Remus
>>
>> I haven't seen all of the movies or all of the series but isn't a two
>> planet base for the Romulan Empire mentioned in one of them? Or am I
>> muddling mythology and Star Trek lore?
>
> The first time we ever see the Romulans in Star Trek TOS “ Balance of
> Terror“ we also see this map which subsequent tricks got wrong
>
> https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSELhX7 B6AKQfU2PsmyGRbkM_pXBALMXKlEsw&s
>
> Note that the name of the second planet is ROMII.
>
> “Remus“ is just another TNG mistake.
>
> There are multiple fan wanks for this. One is that Remus is the third
> planet in the system. The one they don’t talk about. The other is that
> Remus is an alternate name for Romii. But the real answer is the TNG just
> got it wrong.
The silliest thing about it all is that an alien civilization many light
years from Earth just happened to name themselves and their planets after
two characters from human mythology.
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| Re: Star Trek: Nemesis Ending & Why It Killed TNG Movies Explained [message #426342 is a reply to message #426335] |
Fri, 10 January 2025 08:25 |
Ubiquitous
Messages: 238
Registered: July 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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anim8rfsk@cox.net wrote:
> Ubiquitous <weberm@polaris.net> wrote:
>> The fourth and final Star Trek: The Next Generation movie, Star Trek:
>> Nemesis, put a nail in the coffin of what was - at the time - a dying Star
>> Trek franchise. Star Trek: Nemesis saw Captain Jean-Luc Picard (Patrick
>> Stewart) confront a younger clone of himself, Shinzon (Tom Hardy), who had
>> been created by Romulans to secretly replace Picard.
>
> Who he doesn't look anything like
Heh
>> Shinzon had been discarded to the mines of Remus
>
> Hey! Look! They got the name of the planet wrong!
Wasn't the name of Romulus's twin planet?
>> before becoming the new Romulan Praetor to exact his revenge. Star Trek:
>> Nemesis' subplot featured the discovery of B-4 (Brent Spiner), an inferior
>> Soong-type android built before Lt. Commander Data (Brent Spiner).
>
> It took Spiner almost 37 seconds to come up with the name of that
> character, but he did break for coffee in the middle of that.
Heh. Spiner was obviously trying to copy what happened to Spock.
>> In theory, Star Trek: Nemesis' high-stakes cinematic action, with a
>> screenplay and story by Academy Award-nominated John Logan with Brent
>> Spiner, was designed to draw casual moviegoers. Further, Star Trek:
>> Nemesis' themes of identity and duality in its Picard and Data storylines
>> were supposed to create that cerebral Star Trek touch. In practice, Star
>> Trek: Nemesis fell apart by packing its 1 hour and 57 minute runtime with
>> more style than substance. Star Trek: Insurrection's lukewarm reception
>> soured suits on Jonathan Frakes taking the helm again, but franchise
>> newcomer Stuart Baird directed Nemesis like a Star Trek movie that was
>> afraid to be Star Trek, leaving Star Trek: The Next Generation's beloved
>> ensemble rudderless and inconsistent.
>>
>> Star Trek: Nemesis Ending Explained
>> Captain Picard And Lt. Commander Data Team Up To Destroy Shinzon
>> Star Trek: Nemesis ends with a face-off between the USS Enterprise-E and
>> Shinzon's massive starship, the Scimitar. Shinzon vowed to take revenge by
>> using deadly thalaron radiation to wipe out all life on Earth, which the
>> Enterprise must prevent at all costs. Romulan Commander Donatra (Dina
>> Meyer) arrives to help the Enterprise, not Shinzon, citing "internal
>> security". While the Scimitar is distracted by Donatra's Warbirds,
>> Counselor Deanna Troi (Marina Sirtis) empathically locates Shinzon's
>> cloaked ship, and opens fire. The Enterprise is outgunned, however, and
>> Remans board the ship to seize what Shinzon truly wants: Captain Picard.
>>
>> There have been thirteen Star Trek movies over the last 40 years, but
>> which is the boldest big-screen adventure to go where no man has gone
>> before?
>>
>> Rather than suffer more casualties, Picard yields to Reman capture,
>
> Because that's what Picard does best. Surrender.
>
>
>> while Data crosses the space between the Enterprise and Scimitar's open
>> hulls. As the thalaron emitter charges, Shinzon and Jean-Luc meet in
>> single combat, with Picard victoriously spearing Shinzon, who's consumed
>> by his own hubris. Data places an emergency transport key on his captain
>> and beams Picard back to the Enterprise, before Data destroys the
>> thalaraon emitter, sacrificing himself in the process. Data's memory is
>> celebrated on the Enterprise-E, and Donatra promises Picard a friend in
>> the Romulan Empire.
>>
>> Shinzon's determination to find and unleash the darkness in Picard's heart
>> is his own downfall,
>>
>> At the end of Star Trek: Nemesis, Shinzon's determination to find and
>> unleash the darkness in Picard's heart is his own downfall. Shinzon and
>> Picard share DNA and a sense of justice for the downtrodden, but Shinzon
>> insists that Jean-Luc would be as megalomaniacal as Shinzon is had Picard
>> also been raised in the darkness of the Reman mines. Picard's equally
>> steadfast insistence that Shinzon is capable of doing good only proves how
>> alike they are, instead of supporting the movie's stated point that their
>> backgrounds make them different.
>>
>> At the end of Star Trek: Nemesis, Lieutenant Commander Data heroically
>> sacrifices himself to destroy Shinzon's thalaron emitter and save all life
>> on Earth. Data's act of bravery ensures the Federation's survival, but
>> ultimately contributes to Star Trek: Nemesis' reputation as a franchise-
>> killer. Compared to Spock's (Leonard Nimoy) death in Star Trek II: The
>> Wrath of Khan, Data's death rings hollow. Unlike The Wrath of Khan
>> building to Spock's sacrifice, Nemesis doesn't have a narrative
>> throughline that supports Data's decision, and his replacement is already
>> lined up in B-4.
>>
>> Data's death in Star Trek: Nemesis was supposed to provide the film with
>> an emotional climax, but it was an unworthy end to a much beloved
>> character.
>>
>> Brent Spiner co-wrote Star Trek: Nemesis' story with John Logan, creating
>> his own graceful exit from Star Trek by killing off Data. As an android,
>> Data wasn't supposed to age, and Spiner's advancing years were becoming
>> more difficult to mask with Data's makeup. Star Trek: Nemesis ended with
>> B-4 in possession of Data's memories on the USS Enterprise-E, however,
>> leaving the door open for Spiner's return in a future Star Trek: The Next
>> Generation movie.
>>
>> Star Trek: Nemesis set up a potential fifth Star Trek: The Next Generation
>> movie that never happened. Conceptualized by Nemesis screenwriter John
>> Logan and Brent Spiner, the final TNG movie would have been a crossover
>> between Star Trek: The Next Generation, Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, and
>> Star Trek: Voyager. Characters from all three TNG-era Star Trek series
>> were slated to join forces against a massive threat that only a team-up
>> between Star Trek's finest could thwart.
>
> OK, the characters in VOYAGER can be called many things but "finest" is
> definitely not one of them.
Yeah, I fail to see what would unite these three different groups together.
>> Just as Star Trek Generations passed the franchise to the TNG cast, the
>> Nemesis follow-up would have led to DS9 or Voyager movies.
>>
>> Waning interest in Star Trek as a franchise, low box-office returns, and
>> poor fan reception led to Star Trek: Nemesis ultimately killing future
>> Star Trek: The Next Generation movies. As Star Trek: Enterprise's pivot
>> to earlier in the Star Trek timeline suggested Star Trek might be done
>> with the 24th century, Star Trek: Nemesis opened to a disappointing US
>> $18.5 million box office. Ticket sales dropped 76% for Nemesis' second
>> weekend, indicating fans were dissatisfied with the latest TNG movie.
>> Star Trek: Nemesis closed three months later, after grossing a woeful
>> $43.25 million domestically.
>>
>> ************************************************************ *********
>> Film Title US & Canada Worldwide Budget
>> ---------- ----------- --------- ------
>> Star Trek Generations $75,671,125 $118,071,125 $38 million
>> Star Trek: First Contact $92,027,888 $146,027,888 $46 million
>> Star Trek: Insurrection $70,187,658 $112,587,658 $70 million
>> Star Trek: Nemesis $43,254,409 $67,336,470 $60 million
>> ************************************************************ *********
>>
>> Seven years passed before Star Trek returned to cinemas with J.J. Abrams'
>> 2009 reboot. The Kelvin Timeline Star Trek movies were a change of pace
>> that combined Abrams' fresh take with nostalgia for Star Trek: The
>> Original Series. Although Star Trek Into Darkness received mixed reviews,
>> and Star Trek Beyond was an underrated gem, Abrams' Star Trek movies
>> renewed interest in the franchise. The Kelvin Timeline paved the way for
>> Star Trek's return to televisionand a chance to fix the mistakes made
>> by Star Trek: Nemesis.
>>
>> Star Trek: Picard fixed Star Trek: Nemesis' mistakes by returning to
>> themes that Nemesis botched in its delivery. Backed up as a positronic
>> ghost, Lieutenant Commander Data asked Admiral Picard to grant Data's
>> ultimate wish: the universal human experience of death. By reframing death
>> as the final step in becoming human, Star Trek: Picard gave Data's death
>> the meaning it lacked in Star Trek: Nemesis. Data's legacy lived on in the
>> highly advanced synth, Soji Asha (Isa Briones), instead of B-4, while
>> Picard's new mirror was Jean-Luc and Beverly Crusher's son, Jack Crusher
>> (Ed Speleers), instead of Shinzon.
>>
>> Star Trek: Picard followed through with Commander Donatra's promise that
>> Jean-Luc Picard had a friend in the Romulan Empire. Admiral Picard had a
>> personal investment in evacuating Romulus before the Romulan supernova
>> destroyed the planet in 2387; this promise ultimately cost Picard his
>> career when Starfleet called his resignation bluff.
>>
>> Star Trek: Picard season 3 reunited the Star Trek: The Next Generation
>> cast for the proper send-off that Star Trek: Nemesis failed to give them.
>> Picard gave each member of the former USS Enterprise-E crew a spotlight,
>> especially the characters that Nemesis sidelined, like Captain Worf and
>> Beverly Crusher. Deanna Troi had more agency in her few Star Trek: Picard
>> appearances than ever before. Even Data's return was an evolution of his
>> quest for humanity. Star Trek: Picard allowed Star Trek: The Next
>> Generation to end with the dignity it deserved instead of being killed by
>> Star Trek: Nemesis.
--
Let's go Brandon!
-
e last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.
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| Re: Star Trek: Nemesis Ending & Why It Killed TNG Movies Explained [message #426343 is a reply to message #426336] |
Fri, 10 January 2025 08:30 |
Ubiquitous
Messages: 238
Registered: July 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Rhino wrote:
> On 2025-01-09 4:49 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
>> Ubiquitous <weberm@polaris.net> wrote:
>>> The fourth and final Star Trek: The Next Generation movie, Star Trek:
>>> Nemesis, put a nail in the coffin of what was - at the time - a dying
>>> Star Trek franchise. Star Trek: Nemesis saw Captain Jean-Luc Picard
>>> (Patrick Stewart) confront a younger clone of himself,
>>
>> That doesn't look anything like him
>>
>>> Shinzon (Tom Hardy), who had been created by Romulans to secretly replace
>>> Picard.
>>
>> Who he doesn't look anything like
>>
>>> Shinzon had been discarded to the mines of Remus
>>
>> Hey! Look! They got the name of the planet wrong!
>
> Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the Romulan Empire centered on two
> planets, Romulus and Remus, which (probably not coincidentally) are the
> names of the founder of Ancient Rome here on Earth?
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romulus_and_Remus
>
> I haven't seen all of the movies or all of the series but isn't a two
> planet base for the Romulan Empire mentioned in one of them? Or am I
> muddling mythology and Star Trek lore?
That's what I remember, too, but I also remember them inventing a vampire
Romulan subrace that convientiuently had never been heard of before then.
I hate "toaster pop-up" villians.
--
--
Not a joke! Don't jump!
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| Re: Star Trek: Nemesis Ending & Why It Killed TNG Movies Explained [message #426345 is a reply to message #426339] |
Fri, 10 January 2025 08:34 |
Ubiquitous
Messages: 238
Registered: July 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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no_email@invalid.invalid wrote:
> anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>> Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>>> On 2025-01-09 4:49 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
>>>> Ubiquitous <weberm@polaris.net> wrote:
>>>> > The fourth and final Star Trek: The Next Generation movie, Star Trek:
>>>> > Nemesis, put a nail in the coffin of what wasat the timea dying
>>>> > Star Trek franchise. Star Trek: Nemesis saw Captain Jean-Luc Picard
>>>> > (Patrick Stewart) confront a younger clone of himself, Shinzon (Tom
>>>> > Hardy), who had been> created by Romulans to secretly replace Picard.
>>>> > Shinzon had been discarded to the mines of Remus
>>>>
>>>> Hey! Look! They got the name of the planet wrong!
>>>>
>>> Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the Romulan Empire centered on two
>>> planets, Romulus and Remus, which (probably not coincidentally) are the
>>> names of the founder of Ancient Rome here on Earth?
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romulus_and_Remus
>>>
>>> I haven't seen all of the movies or all of the series but isn't a two
>>> planet base for the Romulan Empire mentioned in one of them? Or am I
>>> muddling mythology and Star Trek lore?
>>
>> The first time we ever see the Romulans in Star Trek TOS "Balance of
>> Terror" we also see this map which subsequent tricks got wrong
>>
>> https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSELhX7 B6AKQfU2PsmyGRbkM_pXBALMXKlEsw&s
>>
>> Note that the name of the second planet is ROMII.
>>
>> "Remus" is just another TNG mistake.
>>
>> There are multiple fan wanks for this. One is that Remus is the third
>> planet in the system. The one they don't talk about. The other is that
>> Remus is an alternate name for Romii. But the real answer is the TNG just
>> got it wrong.
>
> The silliest thing about it all is that an alien civilization many light
> years from Earth just happened to name themselves and their planets after
> two characters from human mythology.
Obviously, the Roman Empire existed when they observed Earth, thought it was cool,
and modelled themselves after it.
--
Not a joke! Don't jump!
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