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| Re: Creative Ways To Say How Old You Are [message #425566 is a reply to message #425565] |
Wed, 04 December 2024 01:01   |
David LaRue
Messages: 21
Registered: July 2012
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote in news:viodfp$fp5p$2@dont-
email.me:
> Here’s one I came up with:
>
> I can remember when spacebars were longer, because there were fewer
> modifier keys on computer keyboards.
True! I loved the feel of the DECwriter LA-36 II keyboard. The spacebar was
below the other keys, in the center where it should be, and no modifier keys
on that row.
I can remember when Radio Shack sold ICs (Integrated Circuits) and building
my first computer from components, like baton switches.
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| Re: Creative Ways To Say How Old You Are [message #425568 is a reply to message #425566] |
Wed, 04 December 2024 16:43 |
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Originally posted by: Chris Ahlstrom
David LaRue wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote in news:viodfp$fp5p$2@dont-
> email.me:
>
>> Here’s one I came up with:
>>
>> I can remember when spacebars were longer, because there were fewer
>> modifier keys on computer keyboards.
>
> True! I loved the feel of the DECwriter LA-36 II keyboard. The spacebar was
> below the other keys, in the center where it should be, and no modifier keys
> on that row.
I had forgotten about the DECwriter!
> I can remember when Radio Shack sold ICs (Integrated Circuits) and building
> my first computer from components, like baton switches.
--
If the weather is extremely bad, church attendance will be down. If
the weather is extremely good, church attendance will be down. If the
bulletin covers are in short supply, however, church attendance will
exceed all expectations.
-- Reverend Chichester
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| Re: Creative Ways To Say How Old You Are [message #425569 is a reply to message #425568] |
Wed, 04 December 2024 17:27 |
scott
Messages: 4380
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> writes:
> David LaRue wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
>
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote in news:viodfp$fp5p$2@dont-
>> email.me:
>>
>>> Here’s one I came up with:
>>>
>>> I can remember when spacebars were longer, because there were fewer
>>> modifier keys on computer keyboards.
>>
>> True! I loved the feel of the DECwriter LA-36 II keyboard. The spacebar was
>> below the other keys, in the center where it should be, and no modifier keys
>> on that row.
>
> I had forgotten about the DECwriter!
I'll never forget when our ASR-33 was replaced with an LA-120. Three
times faster, and full-width greenbar.
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| Re: Creative Ways To Say How Old You Are [message #425574 is a reply to message #425569] |
Wed, 04 December 2024 21:44 |
David LaRue
Messages: 21
Registered: July 2012
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote in
news:7H44P.55775$A9x9.24066@fx13.iad:
> Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> writes:
>> David LaRue wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
>>
>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote in news:viodfp$fp5p$2@dont-
>>> email.me:
>>>
>>>> Here’s one I came up with:
>>>>
>>>> I can remember when spacebars were longer, because there were fewer
>>>> modifier keys on computer keyboards.
>>>
>>> True! I loved the feel of the DECwriter LA-36 II keyboard. The
>>> spacebar was below the other keys, in the center where it should be,
>>> and no modifier keys on that row.
>>
>> I had forgotten about the DECwriter!
>
> I'll never forget when our ASR-33 was replaced with an LA-120. Three
> times faster, and full-width greenbar.
For those of us who used dial-in connections, whistle the Break Command.
All together now!
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| Re: Creative Ways To Say How Old You Are [message #425578 is a reply to message #425574] |
Thu, 05 December 2024 08:53 |
Freddy1X
Messages: 66
Registered: August 2012
Karma: 0
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Member |
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David LaRue wrote:
> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote in
> news:7H44P.55775$A9x9.24066@fx13.iad:
>
>> Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> writes:
>>> David LaRue wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
>>>
>>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote in news:viodfp$fp5p$2@dont-
>>>> email.me:
( Cuts )
I miss the connect sounds of my modem and how much it told you about what
your connection speed would be. And the blinky lights to back them up.
Freddy,
sounds of an auld fart.
--
If lost return to the lobby.
/|>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>\|
/| I may be demented \|
/| but I'm not crazy! \|
/|<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<\|
* SPAyM trap: there is no X in my address *
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| Re: Creative Ways To Say How Old You Are [message #425579 is a reply to message #425578] |
Thu, 05 December 2024 09:07 |
Freddy1X
Messages: 66
Registered: August 2012
Karma: 0
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Member |
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Freddy1X wrote:
> David LaRue wrote:
>
>> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote in
>> news:7H44P.55775$A9x9.24066@fx13.iad:
( cuts )
The clicks and buzzes of your floppy drives as they trundled along.( 8" of
cource )
Freddy,
also getting floppy....
--
This site best viewed by human eyes using a web browser.
/|>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>\|
/| I may be demented \|
/| but I'm not crazy! \|
/|<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<\|
* SPAyM trap: there is no X in my address *
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| Re: Creative Ways To Say How Old You Are [message #425582 is a reply to message #425581] |
Thu, 05 December 2024 13:20 |
scott
Messages: 4380
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> writes:
> On 2024-12-05 15:07, Freddy1X wrote:
>> Freddy1X wrote:
>>
>>> David LaRue wrote:
>>>
>>>> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote in
>>>> news:7H44P.55775$A9x9.24066@fx13.iad:
>> ( cuts )
>>
>> The clicks and buzzes of your floppy drives as they trundled along.( 8" of
>> cource )
>
> The clicks and buzzes of the hard disk step motor on my PC.
Seek tests on the mainframe 3350 lookalikes, or the
air compressor kicking in on the Burroughs 5N Head-per-Track drives.
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| Re: Creative Ways To Say How Old You Are [message #425583 is a reply to message #425581] |
Thu, 05 December 2024 13:47 |
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Originally posted by: Chris Ahlstrom
Carlos E.R. wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
> On 2024-12-05 15:07, Freddy1X wrote:
>> Freddy1X wrote:
>>
>>> David LaRue wrote:
>>>
>>>> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote in
>>>> news:7H44P.55775$A9x9.24066@fx13.iad:
>> ( cuts )
>>
>> The clicks and buzzes of your floppy drives as they trundled along.( 8" of
>> cource )
>
> The clicks and buzzes of the hard disk step motor on my PC.
My Linux hard drives were all /dev/hda etc.
--
A diplomat is a man who can convince his wife she'd look stout in a fur coat.
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| Re: Creative Ways To Say How Old You Are [message #425584 is a reply to message #425582] |
Thu, 05 December 2024 14:51 |
Dan Espen
Messages: 3899
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:
> "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> writes:
>> On 2024-12-05 15:07, Freddy1X wrote:
>>> Freddy1X wrote:
>>>
>>>> David LaRue wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote in
>>>> > news:7H44P.55775$A9x9.24066@fx13.iad:
>>> ( cuts )
>>>
>>> The clicks and buzzes of your floppy drives as they trundled along.( 8" of
>>> cource )
>>
>> The clicks and buzzes of the hard disk step motor on my PC.
>
> Seek tests on the mainframe 3350 lookalikes, or the
> air compressor kicking in on the Burroughs 5N Head-per-Track drives.
The first systems I worked on used multiple tape drives.
But then I escaped to an IBM 1440 installation. The platters were about
20 inches across. The installation I was at did not pay for the direct
seek feature, so every arm movement started with the arm
retracting then it moved to the cylinder desired.
IBM 3350's were way later than that.
--
Dan Espen
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| Re: Creative Ways To Say How Old You Are [message #425585 is a reply to message #425584] |
Thu, 05 December 2024 15:05 |
scott
Messages: 4380
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> writes:
> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:
>
>> "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> writes:
>>> On 2024-12-05 15:07, Freddy1X wrote:
>>>> Freddy1X wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > David LaRue wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote in
>>>> >> news:7H44P.55775$A9x9.24066@fx13.iad:
>>>> ( cuts )
>>>>
>>>> The clicks and buzzes of your floppy drives as they trundled along.( 8" of
>>>> cource )
>>>
>>> The clicks and buzzes of the hard disk step motor on my PC.
>>
>> Seek tests on the mainframe 3350 lookalikes, or the
>> air compressor kicking in on the Burroughs 5N Head-per-Track drives.
>
> The first systems I worked on used multiple tape drives.
> But then I escaped to an IBM 1440 installation. The platters were about
> 20 inches across. The installation I was at did not pay for the direct
> seek feature, so every arm movement started with the arm
> retracting then it moved to the cylinder desired.
Burroughs had a number of early drives (Drum, HPT, etc) before
my time. They had a 3330 clone (called 235) and the 3350
lookalikes (called 677) actually came from Memorex (which Burroughs
acquired at some point).
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| Re: Creative Ways To Say How Old You Are [message #425586 is a reply to message #425579] |
Thu, 05 December 2024 15:57 |
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Originally posted by: Lawrence D'Oliveiro
On Thu, 05 Dec 2024 09:07:57 -0500, Freddy1X wrote:
> The clicks and buzzes of your floppy drives as they trundled along.( 8"
> of cource )
The first Apple Mac from 1984 had those variable-speed single-sided 400K
drives. 128K of RAM wasn’t enough to hold an entire MacPaint document in
RAM, so it had to swap bits in and out every time you scrolled. The drive
would whir into life and give off this musical hum that changed pitch
depending on the position of the head on the disk -- quite a soothing
sound, almost playing a tune while you waited for the next part of your
document to appear.
Then two years later the Mac Plus came out, with a whole mebibyte of RAM.
Remember, this was when the IBM PC world was still struggling with the
640kiB limit. And also new, faster, double-sided 800K floppy drives.
But ... they didn’t hum any more. They were still variable-speed, but you
could no longer hear that musical hum from the drive motor: there was only
the “uh-uh-uh” grunt from the head stepper as it switched tracks. Faster,
I think, and more capacious, definitely, but not as soothing any more.
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| Re: Creative Ways To Say How Old You Are [message #425587 is a reply to message #425584] |
Thu, 05 December 2024 16:01 |
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Originally posted by: Lawrence D'Oliveiro
On Thu, 05 Dec 2024 14:51:24 -0500, Dan Espen wrote:
> The first systems I worked on used multiple tape drives.
Remember how computers used to be portrayed in movies and TV, well into
the 1980s, with banks of multiple tape drives where the reels would go
start-stop-start-stop?
The central computer facility where I worked had I think only one tape
drive, used only for backup. By that time they were “streaming” drives,
which meant, if you fed them fast enough (which you could, since the disks
were big enough and fast enough), they could run flat out, with no start-
stop-start-stop. So I never saw that in the flesh, so to speak.
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| Re: Creative Ways To Say How Old You Are [message #425588 is a reply to message #425585] |
Thu, 05 December 2024 16:11 |
Rich Alderson
Messages: 528
Registered: August 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:
> Burroughs had a number of early drives (Drum, HPT, etc) before
> my time. They had a 3330 clone (called 235) and the 3350
> lookalikes (called 677) actually came from Memorex (which Burroughs
> acquired at some point).
The Memorex 677 was the 3330-11 clone, also used in the DEC RP06. I've
actually done a head alignment on one of those (and remember, I'm a software/
admin guy).
--
Rich Alderson news@alderson.users.panix.com
Audendum est, et veritas investiganda; quam etiamsi non assequamur,
omnino tamen proprius, quam nunc sumus, ad eam perveniemus.
--Galen
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| Re: Creative Ways To Say How Old You Are [message #425589 is a reply to message #425581] |
Thu, 05 December 2024 17:10 |
Mike Spencer
Messages: 1018
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> writes:
> The clicks and buzzes of the hard disk step motor on my PC.
The stuttery static on my radio as it attempted to reproduce the e-m
emanations from my Osborne I?
(Never went down the rabbit hole of trying to get the O-I to produce
musical effects on the radio.)
--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
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| Re: Creative Ways To Say How Old You Are [message #425591 is a reply to message #425588] |
Thu, 05 December 2024 17:36 |
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Originally posted by: Bob Eager
On Thu, 05 Dec 2024 16:11:12 -0500, Rich Alderson wrote:
> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:
>
>> Burroughs had a number of early drives (Drum, HPT, etc) before my time.
>> They had a 3330 clone (called 235) and the 3350 lookalikes (called
>> 677) actually came from Memorex (which Burroughs acquired at some
>> point).
>
> The Memorex 677 was the 3330-11 clone, also used in the DEC RP06. I've
> actually done a head alignment on one of those (and remember, I'm a
> software/
> admin guy).
We had a load of those, rebadged as the ICL EDS200.
--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org
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| Re: Creative Ways To Say How Old You Are [message #425596 is a reply to message #425594] |
Thu, 05 December 2024 18:02 |
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Originally posted by: Carlos E.R.
On 2024-12-05 23:53, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> I can remember when you could either get a colour monitor, or a monitor
> that showed text you could read.
>
> (Excluding expensive high-end workstation stuff, of course.)
I remember when computers used a TV for display, on an empty channel.
--
Cheers, Carlos.
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| Re: Creative Ways To Say How Old You Are [message #425597 is a reply to message #425591] |
Thu, 05 December 2024 18:28 |
scott
Messages: 4380
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> writes:
> On Thu, 05 Dec 2024 16:11:12 -0500, Rich Alderson wrote:
>
>> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:
>>
>>> Burroughs had a number of early drives (Drum, HPT, etc) before my time.
>>> They had a 3330 clone (called 235) and the 3350 lookalikes (called
>>> 677) actually came from Memorex (which Burroughs acquired at some
>>> point).
>>
>> The Memorex 677 was the 3330-11 clone, also used in the DEC RP06. I've
>> actually done a head alignment on one of those (and remember, I'm a
>> software/
>> admin guy).
The IBM 3330-11 had two stacked drives for each unit in the
string. The 3350 is a washing machine style drive.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:IBM_magnetic_disk_dr ives_3330%2B3333.png
The burrough equivalent was the 225 and later 235 disk subsystems.
The Burroughs/Memorex 677 was a washing machine-style top-loader
single drive.
$ wget https://mrxhist.org/docs/MRX%2019820607%20OEM%20Drives%20EN. pdf
" Rounding out the Memorex
display will be its M o d e l 677
removable-pack 14-inch drive.
The M o d e l 677 is a 300-Mbyte
drive with an SMD interface and
an average access time of 28 mil-
liseconds. OEM-quantity price
is said to be less than $10,000."
The pictures of the RP06 match the 677 style, not the 3330 dual stacked subsystem.
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| Re: Creative Ways To Say How Old You Are [message #425598 is a reply to message #425587] |
Thu, 05 December 2024 23:49 |
Dan Espen
Messages: 3899
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:
> On Thu, 05 Dec 2024 14:51:24 -0500, Dan Espen wrote:
>
>> The first systems I worked on used multiple tape drives.
>
> Remember how computers used to be portrayed in movies and TV, well into
> the 1980s, with banks of multiple tape drives where the reels would go
> start-stop-start-stop?
Yep. Tapes spinning and sometimes cards being read.
After I worked at my first system with disk drives I tried to avoid
using tapes but they were around for many years. At one site someone
decided to try assigning the compile work files to tape instead of disk.
That slowed down compiles considerably but it was the first time I got
to see a program that read tape files forward and backward.
--
Dan Espen
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| Re: Creative Ways To Say How Old You Are [message #425599 is a reply to message #425598] |
Fri, 06 December 2024 00:55 |
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Originally posted by: Lawrence D'Oliveiro
On Thu, 05 Dec 2024 23:49:11 -0500, Dan Espen wrote:
> At one site someone
> decided to try assigning the compile work files to tape instead of disk.
> That slowed down compiles considerably but it was the first time I got
> to see a program that read tape files forward and backward.
Oh yes. There was an actual sort algorithm, called “merge sort”, that
depended on reading/writing the records on multiple tape drives at once --
the more the merrier. Bidirectionality was important to avoid wasting time
waiting for the whole tape to rewind. But you had to remember that the
order of the records was now reversed.
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| Re: Creative Ways To Say How Old You Are [message #425600 is a reply to message #425565] |
Fri, 06 December 2024 02:40 |
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Originally posted by: Trog Woolley
> Here’s one I came up with:
>
> I can remember when spacebars were longer, because there were fewer
> modifier keys on computer keyboards.
I talk about punch cards and paper tape. Sometimes I ask if they have
seen old sci-fi films with the big tape wheels going around in the
background, and say I used to work with those.
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| Re: Creative Ways To Say How Old You Are [message #425601 is a reply to message #425600] |
Fri, 06 December 2024 08:27 |
Freddy1X
Messages: 66
Registered: August 2012
Karma: 0
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Member |
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Trog Woolley wrote:
>> Here’s one I came up with:
>>
>> I can remember when spacebars were longer, because there were fewer
>> modifier keys on computer keyboards.
>
> I talk about punch cards and paper tape. Sometimes I ask if they have
> seen old sci-fi films with the big tape wheels going around in the
> background, and say I used to work with those.
Were those tape drives anything like the Lost in Space ones that had bubble
heads and flex duct arms with clamp manipulators on the ends?
After all, there MUST have been SOME basis for the drives shown on the TV
show.
Freddy,
creative license
--
Not for use on moving vehicles.
/|>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>\|
/| I may be demented \|
/| but I'm not crazy! \|
/|<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<\|
* SPAyM trap: there is no X in my address *
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| Re: Creative Ways To Say How Old You Are [message #425602 is a reply to message #425601] |
Fri, 06 December 2024 09:07 |
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Originally posted by: Carlos E.R.
On 2024-12-06 14:27, Freddy1X wrote:
> Trog Woolley wrote:
>
>>> Here’s one I came up with:
>>>
>>> I can remember when spacebars were longer, because there were fewer
>>> modifier keys on computer keyboards.
>>
>> I talk about punch cards and paper tape. Sometimes I ask if they have
>> seen old sci-fi films with the big tape wheels going around in the
>> background, and say I used to work with those.
>
> Were those tape drives anything like the Lost in Space ones that had bubble
> heads and flex duct arms with clamp manipulators on the ends?
>
> After all, there MUST have been SOME basis for the drives shown on the TV
> show.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_in_Space>
Computers and tape drives were often depicted in various episodes using
the Burroughs 205 commercial products.
→
< https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burroughs_Corporation#Referenc es_in_popular_culture>
References in popular culture
Burroughs B205 hardware has appeared as props in many Hollywood
television and film productions from the late 1950s. For example, a B205
console was often shown in the television series Batman as the Bat
Computer; also as the flight computer in Lost in Space. B205 tape drives
were often seen in series such as The Time Tunnel and Voyage to the
Bottom of the Sea.[19][20] Burroughs equipment was also featured in the
movie The Angry Red Planet.
4. ^ab Sawyer, T.J., "Burroughs 205 HomePage"
→ <https://tjsawyer.com/B205Home.htm>
It Sure Looked Like a Computer
On September 15, 1965, I settled down at home in front of our
Hallicrafters black and white television set to watch the premier
episode of Lost in Space. The tension is building as we are introduced
to the Robinson family and we fear for their lives as we discover the
diabolical intentions of Dr. Smith. As the camera pans around the
spacecraft, three Burroughs 205 consoles come into view controlling the
Jupiter 2. Can you say, "Rolling on the Floor, Laughing Out Loud?"
→ <http://starringthecomputer.com/computer.php?c=45#73>
{there are some photos, of the consoles}
--
Cheers, Carlos.
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| Re: Creative Ways To Say How Old You Are [message #425603 is a reply to message #425565] |
Fri, 06 December 2024 09:21 |
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Originally posted by: s|b
On Wed, 4 Dec 2024 02:06:49 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> Here’s one I came up with:
>
> I can remember when spacebars were longer, because there were fewer
> modifier keys on computer keyboards.
If my memory serves me right it was 64 KB.
--
s|b
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| Re: Creative Ways To Say How Old You Are [message #425604 is a reply to message #425598] |
Fri, 06 December 2024 10:44 |
scott
Messages: 4380
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> writes:
> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:
>
>> On Thu, 05 Dec 2024 14:51:24 -0500, Dan Espen wrote:
>>
>>> The first systems I worked on used multiple tape drives.
>>
>> Remember how computers used to be portrayed in movies and TV, well into
>> the 1980s, with banks of multiple tape drives where the reels would go
>> start-stop-start-stop?
>
> Yep. Tapes spinning and sometimes cards being read.
>
> After I worked at my first system with disk drives I tried to avoid
> using tapes but they were around for many years. At one site someone
> decided to try assigning the compile work files to tape instead of disk.
> That slowed down compiles considerably but it was the first time I got
> to see a program that read tape files forward and backward.
One of the applications we shipped with the Burroughs MCP was a sort
utility. It was orignally designed for doing sort/merges using the
7- and 9-track tape drives. We had one system with a string of 16
tape drives that was used to test the sort utility. The programmer
who wrote the utility leveraged the read-backwards capability of
the tape units to speed up the sort process.
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| Re: Creative Ways To Say How Old You Are [message #425605 is a reply to message #425602] |
Fri, 06 December 2024 10:48 |
scott
Messages: 4380
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> writes:
> On 2024-12-06 14:27, Freddy1X wrote:
>> Trog Woolley wrote:
>>
>>>> Here’s one I came up with:
>>>>
>>>> I can remember when spacebars were longer, because there were fewer
>>>> modifier keys on computer keyboards.
>>>
>>> I talk about punch cards and paper tape. Sometimes I ask if they have
>>> seen old sci-fi films with the big tape wheels going around in the
>>> background, and say I used to work with those.
>>
>> Were those tape drives anything like the Lost in Space ones that had bubble
>> heads and flex duct arms with clamp manipulators on the ends?
>>
>> After all, there MUST have been SOME basis for the drives shown on the TV
>> show.
>
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_in_Space>
>
> Computers and tape drives were often depicted in various episodes using
> the Burroughs 205 commercial products.
>
>
> →
> < https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burroughs_Corporation#Referenc es_in_popular_culture>
>
> References in popular culture
>
> Burroughs B205 hardware has appeared as props in many Hollywood
> television and film productions from the late 1950s. For example, a B205
> console was often shown in the television series Batman as the Bat
> Computer; also as the flight computer in Lost in Space. B205 tape drives
> were often seen in series such as The Time Tunnel and Voyage to the
> Bottom of the Sea.[19][20] Burroughs equipment was also featured in the
> movie The Angry Red Planet.
One of the reasons was that the Electrodata (later Burroughs) plant
was in Pasadena, just a few miles from the major studio lots.
(460 Sierra Madre Villa, Pasadena Californa). The plant building
is still there but no longer part of Unisys.
Both the 205 and 220 were electrodata products.
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| Re: Creative Ways To Say How Old You Are [message #425606 is a reply to message #425604] |
Fri, 06 December 2024 11:14 |
John Levine
Messages: 1487
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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According to Scott Lurndal <slp53@pacbell.net>:
> 7- and 9-track tape drives. We had one system with a string of 16
> tape drives that was used to test the sort utility. The programmer
> who wrote the utility leveraged the read-backwards capability of
> the tape units to speed up the sort process.
That was a standard trick that sort programs used, but to pick a nit, it sped up
the merge process, not the sort process. When a file was too big to sort in
memory, which was pretty much always in those days, first it read the input(s)
in batches that it sorted in memory and wrote out sorted "runs" of records
alternately to the intermediate output devices. (The runs could be larger than
memory using a trick we'll save for the advanced seminar.) Then it merged the
runs from one group of intermediate devices to another into ever larger runs
until it ended up with one big sorted run.
Originally they rewound the intermediate tapes after each merge phase but
someone, more likely several someones, realized they could just read the tapes
backward and reverse the sort comparisons, producing runs in reverse order that
could be read backward in the next phase, producing forward order runs. There
was about a 50% chance that the final run would end up reversed, requiring one
more pass to read it backwards and write out a forward version, but the time
saved not rewinding made it worthwhile. Or I suppose it could realize that it
had written one run onto each of the intermediate tapes so the next merge would
be the last, and if needed rewind and merge forward for the last pass.
There was a lot of really clever programming in sort programs. Most were sort
generators that precompiled the sort comparison rules into a machine code
comparison routine that it could call during the sort passes rather than
interpreting the rules on the fly.
--
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
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| Re: Creative Ways To Say How Old You Are [message #425607 is a reply to message #425599] |
Fri, 06 December 2024 11:42 |
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Originally posted by: Chris Ahlstrom
Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
> On Thu, 05 Dec 2024 23:49:11 -0500, Dan Espen wrote:
>
>> At one site someone
>> decided to try assigning the compile work files to tape instead of disk.
>> That slowed down compiles considerably but it was the first time I got
>> to see a program that read tape files forward and backward.
>
> Oh yes. There was an actual sort algorithm, called “merge sort”, that
> depended on reading/writing the records on multiple tape drives at once --
> the more the merrier. Bidirectionality was important to avoid wasting time
> waiting for the whole tape to rewind. But you had to remember that the
> order of the records was now reversed.
In my data structures class, one assignment was to write a tape sort.
Ugh.
--
You will be winged by an anti-aircraft battery.
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| Re: Creative Ways To Say How Old You Are [message #425608 is a reply to message #425595] |
Fri, 06 December 2024 11:51 |
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Originally posted by: Chris Ahlstrom
Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
> On Thu, 5 Dec 2024 22:51:43 -0000 (UTC), I wrote:
>
>> I can remember when mice still had balls.
>
> I suppose I could have said “wheels”, but, you know, going for maximum
> fnarr-fnarr and all that ...
I have a couple of trackballs, one a Kensington and the other a Logitech Marble
Mouse. They got balls, big one!
I'm using a left-handed upright mouse right now. Gave the right-handed one to
my daughter.
But I avoid the mouse as much as possible.
--
To be happy one must be a) well fed, unhounded by sordid cares, at ease in
Zion, b) full of a comfortable feeling of superiority to the masses of one's
fellow men, and c) delicately and unceasingly amused according to one's taste.
It is my contention that, if this definition be accepted, there is no country
in the world wherein a man constituted as I am -- a man of my peculiar
weaknesses, vanities, appetites, and aversions -- can be so happy as he can
be in the United States. Going further, I lay down the doctrine that it is
a sheer physical impossibility for such a man to live in the United States
and not be happy.
-- H. L. Mencken, "On Being An American"
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| Re: Creative Ways To Say How Old You Are [message #425609 is a reply to message #425594] |
Fri, 06 December 2024 11:52 |
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Originally posted by: Chris Ahlstrom
Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
> I can remember when you could either get a colour monitor, or a monitor
> that showed text you could read.
>
> (Excluding expensive high-end workstation stuff, of course.)
That's why, when I bought an Atari ST, I opted for it's monochrome monitor.
--
Facts are the enemy of truth.
-- Don Quixote
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| Re: Creative Ways To Say How Old You Are [message #425610 is a reply to message #425596] |
Fri, 06 December 2024 12:21 |
David LaRue
Messages: 21
Registered: July 2012
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote in news:31o92lxcuk.ln2
@Telcontar.valinor:
> On 2024-12-05 23:53, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>> I can remember when you could either get a colour monitor, or a monitor
>> that showed text you could read.
>>
>> (Excluding expensive high-end workstation stuff, of course.)
>
> I remember when computers used a TV for display, on an empty channel.
My roommate at college and I both had large Apple }{+ systems with the TV
monitors. The resulting braodcasts on different 3/4 channels allowed us to
see each others screens from across the room. Both of us weren't allowed to
use our computers during the schools football games because our computer
transmissions bled onto the Color TV down the hall in the Rec Room where the
house was watching the game.
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| Re: Creative Ways To Say How Old You Are [message #425611 is a reply to message #425610] |
Fri, 06 December 2024 13:43 |
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Originally posted by: Carlos E.R.
On 2024-12-06 18:21, David LaRue wrote:
> "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote in news:31o92lxcuk.ln2
> @Telcontar.valinor:
>
>> On 2024-12-05 23:53, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>> I can remember when you could either get a colour monitor, or a monitor
>>> that showed text you could read.
>>>
>>> (Excluding expensive high-end workstation stuff, of course.)
>>
>> I remember when computers used a TV for display, on an empty channel.
>
> My roommate at college and I both had large Apple }{+ systems with the TV
> monitors. The resulting braodcasts on different 3/4 channels allowed us to
> see each others screens from across the room. Both of us weren't allowed to
> use our computers during the schools football games because our computer
> transmissions bled onto the Color TV down the hall in the Rec Room where the
> house was watching the game.
LOL.
I was at a student residence, and I think they had bought maybe three
Spectrums. I went with the director on his car buying second hand B/W TV
sets from people in the city.
--
Cheers, Carlos.
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| Re: Creative Ways To Say How Old You Are [message #425612 is a reply to message #425606] |
Fri, 06 December 2024 13:52 |
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Originally posted by: Carlos E.R.
On 2024-12-06 17:14, John Levine wrote:
> According to Scott Lurndal <slp53@pacbell.net>:
>> 7- and 9-track tape drives. We had one system with a string of 16
>> tape drives that was used to test the sort utility. The programmer
>> who wrote the utility leveraged the read-backwards capability of
>> the tape units to speed up the sort process.
>
> That was a standard trick that sort programs used, but to pick a nit, it sped up
> the merge process, not the sort process. When a file was too big to sort in
> memory, which was pretty much always in those days, first it read the input(s)
> in batches that it sorted in memory and wrote out sorted "runs" of records
> alternately to the intermediate output devices. (The runs could be larger than
> memory using a trick we'll save for the advanced seminar.) Then it merged the
> runs from one group of intermediate devices to another into ever larger runs
> until it ended up with one big sorted run.
>
> Originally they rewound the intermediate tapes after each merge phase but
> someone, more likely several someones, realized they could just read the tapes
> backward and reverse the sort comparisons, producing runs in reverse order that
> could be read backward in the next phase, producing forward order runs. There
> was about a 50% chance that the final run would end up reversed, requiring one
> more pass to read it backwards and write out a forward version, but the time
> saved not rewinding made it worthwhile. Or I suppose it could realize that it
> had written one run onto each of the intermediate tapes so the next merge would
> be the last, and if needed rewind and merge forward for the last pass.
>
> There was a lot of really clever programming in sort programs. Most were sort
> generators that precompiled the sort comparison rules into a machine code
> comparison routine that it could call during the sort passes rather than
> interpreting the rules on the fly.
I remember seeing in computer class sort algorithms of large data,
although we used hard disks.
--
Cheers, Carlos.
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| Re: Creative Ways To Say How Old You Are [message #425613 is a reply to message #425602] |
Fri, 06 December 2024 14:02 |
Freddy1X
Messages: 66
Registered: August 2012
Karma: 0
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Member |
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Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2024-12-06 14:27, Freddy1X wrote:
>> Trog Woolley wrote:
>>
>>>> Here’s one I came up with:
>>>>
>>>> I can remember when spacebars were longer, because there were fewer
>>>> modifier keys on computer keyboards.
>>>
>>> I talk about punch cards and paper tape. Sometimes I ask if they have
>>> seen old sci-fi films with the big tape wheels going around in the
>>> background, and say I used to work with those.
>>
>> Were those tape drives anything like the Lost in Space ones that had
>> bubble heads and flex duct arms with clamp manipulators on the ends?
>>
>> After all, there MUST have been SOME basis for the drives shown on the TV
>> show.
>
( cuts, neat media use of real computers information. )
I guess that my question was a bit ambigious. I was really asking about the
'basis' for the bubble heads and arms. And might as well add their ability
to move about threatenly. ;)
Freddy,
fictional computer realities.
>
--
For animal use only.
/|>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>\|
/| I may be demented \|
/| but I'm not crazy! \|
/|<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<\|
* SPAyM trap: there is no X in my address *
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| Re: Creative Ways To Say How Old You Are [message #425614 is a reply to message #425602] |
Fri, 06 December 2024 15:11 |
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Originally posted by: Lawrence D'Oliveiro
On Fri, 6 Dec 2024 15:07:46 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> Computers and tape drives were often depicted in various episodes using
> the Burroughs 205 commercial products.
Actually, the company making them was originally Electrodata, until they
were acquired by Burroughs. You only see these comparatively small
tabletop boxes with the control panels, though I think the actual
computers were bigger than that.
The most famous one is likely the IBM AN/FSQ-7, built for the multi-
billion-dollar Air Force SAGE system, that was supposed to provide warning
of the approach of Soviet nuclear bombers. The entire system was
commissioned, operated for about ten years, and then retired and
dismantled, without once being used in anger. (And some suggested it would
never have worked anyway.)
But movie/TV art directors looking for techy/computery bits at bargain
prices bought loads of the components, and you could spot them in a great
many productions for years afterwards.
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