| ptspecial [message #373928] |
Sat, 22 September 2018 22:10  |
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Originally posted by: Anthony Adverse
what is there that can create/save ptspecial documents for ProTerm? I can't find anything definitive looking around, other than PT seems to have some kind of editor itself so you'd think it could do it.
Ta,
A
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| Re: ptspecial [message #373929 is a reply to message #373928] |
Sat, 22 September 2018 22:15  |
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Originally posted by: Du Hast
On Saturday, September 22, 2018 at 10:10:54 PM UTC-4, Anthony Adverse wrote:
> what is there that can create/save ptspecial documents for ProTerm? I can't find anything definitive looking around, other than PT seems to have some kind of editor itself so you'd think it could do it.
>
> Ta,
>
> A
Mousetrap or Street Scenes. Both on Asimov, you can also you a text editor that supports embedding control characters. Find PSE.BY.CORNMAN.SHK. Also on Asimov.
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| Re: ptspecial [message #373932 is a reply to message #373929] |
Sun, 23 September 2018 00:56 |
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Originally posted by: Anthony Adverse
> Mousetrap or Street Scenes. Both on Asimov, you can also you a text editor >that supports embedding control characters. Find PSE.BY.CORNMAN.SHK. Also on >Asimov.
Thanks I will have a look. I don't know them, but it'd be nice to make some ptspecials for the BBS :) Something that'll just build them for me would be best.. Mostly be a conversion process rather than trying to build new menu screens.
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| Re: ptspecial [message #373933 is a reply to message #373929] |
Sun, 23 September 2018 00:56 |
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Originally posted by: Anthony Adverse
> Mousetrap or Street Scenes. Both on Asimov, you can also you a text editor that supports embedding control characters. Find PSE.BY.CORNMAN.SHK. Also on Asimov.
Ahh also ich habe... :P
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| Re: ptspecial [message #374358 is a reply to message #373933] |
Sun, 07 October 2018 04:24 |
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Originally posted by: Anthony Adverse
I'm looking at mousetrap... and I have some vague ideas for screens.... but I can't see in the mousetext help screen anything for a top left square corner. Should there be one somewhere/somehow? I was going for a look of Appleworks menus... with popups for each submenu... but can't see how to build the card appearance.
Ta,
A
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| Re: ptspecial [message #374364 is a reply to message #374358] |
Sun, 07 October 2018 09:58 |
Jeff Blakeney
Messages: 127
Registered: September 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2018-10-07 4:24 AM, Anthony Adverse wrote:
> I'm looking at mousetrap... and I have some vague ideas for
> screens.... but I can't see in the mousetext help screen anything for
> a top left square corner. Should there be one somewhere/somehow? I
> was going for a look of Appleworks menus... with popups for each
> submenu... but can't see how to build the card appearance.
You make a top left corner using a right side and a bottom side. Put a
vertical line on the right side on in position 1, 2 and put an
underscore character in position 2, 1 and then you can put whatever
character you want in position 2, 2. Here is a normal ASCII example:
_
|*
If don't want your character to be so close to the border, either move
it to 3, 3 or you could put a right vertical line in positions 1, 1 and
1, 2 and a horizontal line at the top in position 2, 1 and 3, 1 and then
your character can go at 3, 2. Here is a normal ASCII example:
|--
| *
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| Re: ptspecial [message #374437 is a reply to message #374364] |
Tue, 09 October 2018 06:33 |
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Originally posted by: Anthony Adverse
On Monday, October 8, 2018 at 12:58:55 AM UTC+11, Jeff Blakeney wrote:
> On 2018-10-07 4:24 AM, Anthony Adverse wrote:
>> I'm looking at mousetrap... and I have some vague ideas for
>> screens.... but I can't see in the mousetext help screen anything for
>> a top left square corner. Should there be one somewhere/somehow? I
>> was going for a look of Appleworks menus... with popups for each
>> submenu... but can't see how to build the card appearance.
> You make a top left corner using a right side and a bottom side. Put a
> vertical line on the right side on in position 1, 2 and put an
> underscore character in position 2, 1 and then you can put whatever
> character you want in position 2, 2. Here is a normal ASCII example:
> _
> |*
>
> If don't want your character to be so close to the border, either move
> it to 3, 3 or you could put a right vertical line in positions 1, 1 and
> 1, 2 and a horizontal line at the top in position 2, 1 and 3, 1 and then
> your character can go at 3, 2. Here is a normal ASCII example:
>
> |--
> | *
I actually thought there was a chr for each corner, bit like ibm-ext... I seem to end up with some ugly spaces around the top left corner. In ascii I usually end up using +---
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| Re: ptspecial [message #374458 is a reply to message #374437] |
Tue, 09 October 2018 21:33 |
Hugh Hood
Messages: 689
Registered: November 2012
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On 10/9/2018 5:33 AM, Anthony Adverse wrote:
>
> I seem to end up with some ugly spaces around the top left corner.
>
Anthony,
Jeff's right. Using a combination of the MouseText right hand vertical
line ($9A) and the 'normal' underscore ($5F) will produce a top left
corner that's tight without gaps. The menus and boxes in AppleWorks 5.1
(when the MouseText menu setting is selected) are drawn this way.
FWIW, were there enough characters, I also wish Apple could have used
the IBM-style box draw glyphs so that screen and printouts (using
unicode line draw sets) could match, but ...
Hugh Hood
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| Re: ptspecial [message #374460 is a reply to message #374458] |
Tue, 09 October 2018 22:26 |
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Originally posted by: Anthony Adverse
> Jeff's right. Using a combination of the MouseText right hand vertical
> line ($9A) and the 'normal' underscore ($5F) will produce a top left
> corner that's tight without gaps. The menus and boxes in AppleWorks 5.1
> (when the MouseText menu setting is selected) are drawn this way.
I must be missing something in the construction. The $ aren't much good to me, I'm using the mousetext editor. I just have to go by the apl-R screen and see what I have to work with. I think I played with the chars you're talking about but that introduced a problem at the bottom left...it was just weird. Anyway persistence, I'll keep at it...
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| Re: ptspecial [message #374472 is a reply to message #374460] |
Wed, 10 October 2018 10:44 |
Jeff Blakeney
Messages: 127
Registered: September 2013
Karma: 0
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On 2018-10-09 10:26 PM, Anthony Adverse wrote:
> I must be missing something in the construction. The $ aren't much
> good to me, I'm using the mousetext editor. I just have to go by the
> apl-R screen and see what I have to work with. I think I played with
> the chars you're talking about but that introduced a problem at the
> bottom left...it was just weird. Anyway persistence, I'll keep at
> it...
I used a Wiki page to figure out the characters. It shows all the
characters available in the original as well as IIgs mousetext character
sets. Just above the pictures it tells you which normal characters will
produce which mousetext characters. You just need to do some counting.
The first character is @, the second through 27 are the letters A to Z
and so on. The page URL is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MouseText
Here is a program I just whipped together to draw an Appleworks like folder:
10 PRINT CHR$(4);"PR#3"
20 HOME
30 PRINT " _____________"
40 PRINT " / Folder name \_________________________"
50 FOR I = 1 TO 8
60 INVERSE: PRINT CHR$(27);"Z";: NORMAL: PRINT SPC(40);: INVERSE: PRINT
"_"; CHR$(24): NORMAL
70 NEXT I
80 PRINT " "; CHR$(27);: INVERSE: FOR I = 1 TO 40: PRINT "L";: NEXT I:
PRINT CHR$(24): NORMAL
90 VTAB 4: HTAB 3: PRINT "Contents of folder"
100 VTAB 11
You may want to avoid using HTAB in 80 columns as it doesn't work past
40 but I can't remember the POKE to use instead. :) Also, the VTAB 11
at the end is just to get the cursor that appears when the program ends
to be outside the box. I'm sure my news reader will be splitting lines
60 and 80 so make sure you make them a single line before you try
pasting or EXECing this code.
This could also be modified into a subroutine that you could call which
could either set the "folder name" or at least make it big enough to
hold the text as well as letting you create the content area to be as
wide and as tall as you want it.
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| Re: ptspecial [message #374473 is a reply to message #374472] |
Wed, 10 October 2018 11:08 |
Hugh Hood
Messages: 689
Registered: November 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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in article ppl37i$m6k$1@dont-email.me, Jeff Blakeney at
CUTjeffrey_blakeney@yahoo.ca wrote on 10/10/18 9:44 AM:
>
> Here is a program I just whipped together to draw an Appleworks like folder:
>
> 10 PRINT CHR$(4);"PR#3"
> 20 HOME
> 30 PRINT " _____________"
> 40 PRINT " / Folder name \_________________________"
>
Jeff,
Just to avoid any confusion between your program and my earlier post re
AppleWorks MouseText filecards and boxes, while your program is drawing the
top of the *classic* non-MouseText AppleWorks folder, the MouseText
AppleWorks 5.1 folder looks like this (without the gaps, of course):
_________________
| Folder name |________________________________
| |
The top left corner is the right vertical line and an underscore;
The bottom left corner is the right vertical line and an underscore;
The top right corner is the left vertical line and an underscore; and,
The bottom right corner is the left vertical line and an underscore.
Hugh Hood
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| Re: ptspecial [message #374474 is a reply to message #374473] |
Wed, 10 October 2018 11:16 |
Hugh Hood
Messages: 689
Registered: November 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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in article D7E38024.3FCC9%hughhood@earthlink.net, Hugh Hood at
hughhood@earthlink.net wrote on 10/10/18 10:08 AM:
>
> The top left corner is the right vertical line and an underscore;
> The bottom left corner is the right vertical line and an underscore;
> The top right corner is the left vertical line and an underscore; and,
> The bottom right corner is the left vertical line and an underscore.
>
As an alternate method, replace the first (2) above:
The top left corner is the left vertical line and an underscore;
The bottom left corner is the lower left corner box 'L';
Hugh Hood
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| Re: ptspecial [message #374488 is a reply to message #374472] |
Thu, 11 October 2018 00:21 |
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Originally posted by: Brian Patrie
On 2018-10-10 09:44, Jeff Blakeney wrote:
> You may want to avoid using HTAB in 80 columns as it doesn't work past
> 40 but I can't remember the POKE to use instead.
This was fixed on the IIc and later (incl the Enhanced IIe).
The alternative is POKE 1403,zero_indexed_column
(which still works on the fixed firmware).
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| Re: ptspecial [message #374491 is a reply to message #374488] |
Thu, 11 October 2018 04:32 |
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Originally posted by: Anthony Adverse
I think part of our problem here, is that I'm not actually using it on a II, I'm using "mousetrap" pts editor on an emulated GS, and then moving the saved screens to a PC for use in the BBS. So the snippets of code and the pokes don't actually help me much. Its just a matter of playing with the characters until the right ones fall into place. I just can't seem to get it quite right.
I guess at least until I get something working properly between Clone-E and his linux peripheral. But even then I'd have to start trying to print it all to a txt file. Load it into mousetrap to save it as a pts screen, fingers crossed.
A
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| Re: ptspecial [message #374492 is a reply to message #374491] |
Thu, 11 October 2018 04:49 |
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Originally posted by: Anthony Adverse
Just as a quick aside the guys that ran The Black Board GBBS used to build their screens manually, no editor... I can't guess how they managed that, it seems so difficult.
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| Re: ptspecial [message #374500 is a reply to message #373928] |
Thu, 11 October 2018 09:46 |
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Originally posted by: Anthony Adverse
I got GSplus to telnet to the BBS... I couldn't find any real docs for it, I'm sure they're there somewhere. But I fired up proterm and ATDT'd the ip address, and away it went.
Now for the bad news... looks like my PTS screens haven't survived the translation from the GS to the PC... most lines appear to print over each other, no lf's going on and a lot of rubbish that looks like ANSI codes going on.. I'll have a look in a PC txt editor, in the meantime... I suggest sticking to ANSI/ASCII.
A
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| Re: ptspecial [message #374504 is a reply to message #374492] |
Thu, 11 October 2018 12:02 |
Michael J. Mahon
Messages: 1772
Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Anthony Adverse <the.ertceps@gmail.com> wrote:
> Just as a quick aside the guys that ran The Black Board GBBS used to
> build their screens manually, no editor... I can't guess how they managed
> that, it seems so difficult.
>
Its just PRINT statements.
If you use a convenient Applesoft editor, like Program Writer, it’s pretty
straightforward after you’ve put your first Mousetext on the screen to
incrementally modify the (short) program to display what you want.
Edit, RUN, edit, RUN, edit, RUN... ;-)
--
-michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://michaeljmahon.com
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| Re: ptspecial [message #374505 is a reply to message #374500] |
Thu, 11 October 2018 12:02 |
Michael J. Mahon
Messages: 1772
Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Anthony Adverse <the.ertceps@gmail.com> wrote:
> I got GSplus to telnet to the BBS... I couldn't find any real docs for
> it, I'm sure they're there somewhere. But I fired up proterm and ATDT'd
> the ip address, and away it went.
>
> Now for the bad news... looks like my PTS screens haven't survived the
> translation from the GS to the PC... most lines appear to print over each
> other, no lf's going on and a lot of rubbish that looks like ANSI codes
> going on. I'll have a look in a PC txt editor, in the meantime... I
> suggest sticking to ANSI/ASCII.
>
> A
>
Sounds like the Apple’s CR line ender is not being expanded to the PC’s
CR-LF line ender.
--
-michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://michaeljmahon.com
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| Re: ptspecial [message #374515 is a reply to message #374505] |
Thu, 11 October 2018 17:44 |
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Originally posted by: Anthony Adverse
> Sounds like the Apple’s CR line ender is not being expanded to the PC’s
> CR-LF line ender.
Could be right there, I didn't consider it. Although sending the same stream back to ProTerm I would've thought would just work. On the flip side, if it uses control characters the BBS software does interpret those, so it must be paying attention to whats going past, might be time to get those applesoft fingers out and add an lf for ever cr I find.
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| Re: ptspecial [message #374519 is a reply to message #374515] |
Thu, 11 October 2018 23:12 |
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Originally posted by: Anthony Adverse
Curiouser and curiouser... said screens saved out of MouseTrap don't actually appear to be mousetext. I managed to find the speed AppleAccess will work at I think.... 1200, sheesh feels slow. So out of the emulated GS, into a shrinkit file, over to the clone e, check the reads, there's no lf's just cr's, but none of the characters look like mousetext now. And the asc values just look like regular ASCII set. Wonder if I just try making them on the clone and move them across from there it'll work any better.
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| Re: ptspecial [message #374523 is a reply to message #374519] |
Fri, 12 October 2018 02:32 |
Michael J. Mahon
Messages: 1772
Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Anthony Adverse <the.ertceps@gmail.com> wrote:
> Curiouser and curiouser... said screens saved out of MouseTrap don't
> actually appear to be mousetext. I managed to find the speed AppleAccess
> will work at I think.... 1200, sheesh feels slow. So out of the emulated
> GS, into a shrinkit file, over to the clone e, check the reads, there's
> no lf's just cr's, but none of the characters look like mousetext now.
> And the asc values just look like regular ASCII set. Wonder if I just
> try making them on the clone and move them across from there it'll work any better.
>
Mousetext is not just text. It is a mode that changes the “inverse text”
font. So there’s no string of characters that will cause Mousetext to be
displayed on an Apple II.
Instead, it requires a POKE to switch to the alternate (Mousetext) inverse
text font, followed by some regular ASCII characters which will be
displayed as Mousetext.
ProTerm must have a screen format that uses some escape sequence to shift
from inverse text into Mousetext, but this is not a standard—it’s just a
programming choice by the author(s) Of ProTerm.
I suggest reading the ProTerm manual to discover how to cause it to render
Mousetext.
--
-michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://michaeljmahon.com
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| Re: ptspecial [message #374524 is a reply to message #374523] |
Fri, 12 October 2018 02:50 |
Michael J. Mahon
Messages: 1772
Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Michael J. Mahon <mjmahon@aol.com> wrote:
> Anthony Adverse <the.ertceps@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Curiouser and curiouser... said screens saved out of MouseTrap don't
>> actually appear to be mousetext. I managed to find the speed AppleAccess
>> will work at I think.... 1200, sheesh feels slow. So out of the emulated
>> GS, into a shrinkit file, over to the clone e, check the reads, there's
>> no lf's just cr's, but none of the characters look like mousetext now.
>> And the asc values just look like regular ASCII set. Wonder if I just
>> try making them on the clone and move them across from there it'll work any better.
>>
>
> Mousetext is not just text. It is a mode that changes the “inverse text”
> font. So there’s no string of characters that will cause Mousetext to be
> displayed on an Apple II.
>
> Instead, it requires a POKE to switch to the alternate (Mousetext) inverse
> text font, followed by some regular ASCII characters which will be
> displayed as Mousetext.
>
> ProTerm must have a screen format that uses some escape sequence to shift
> from inverse text into Mousetext, but this is not a standard—it’s just a
> programming choice by the author(s) Of ProTerm.
>
> I suggest reading the ProTerm manual to discover how to cause it to render
> Mousetext.
>
Out of curiosity, I went to my ProTERM 3 manual, and starting on page 188
in chapter 12 it describes the ProTERM Special terminal emulation. The
second subsection is “ProTERM Special Emulation Programming”, which
describes the control characters and sequences and what they do. I’m
guessing that the needed Mousetext-enabling control character (Ctrl-P) is
not getting sent prior to your screens containing Mousetext.
--
-michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://michaeljmahon.com
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| Re: ptspecial [message #374525 is a reply to message #374524] |
Fri, 12 October 2018 07:00 |
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Originally posted by: Anthony Adverse
On Friday, October 12, 2018 at 5:50:50 PM UTC+11, Michael J. Mahon wrote:
> Michael J. Mahon <mjmahon@aol.com> wrote:
>> Anthony Adverse <the.ertceps@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Curiouser and curiouser... said screens saved out of MouseTrap don't
>>> actually appear to be mousetext. I managed to find the speed AppleAccess
>>> will work at I think.... 1200, sheesh feels slow. So out of the emulated
>>> GS, into a shrinkit file, over to the clone e, check the reads, there's
>>> no lf's just cr's, but none of the characters look like mousetext now.
>>> And the asc values just look like regular ASCII set. Wonder if I just
>>> try making them on the clone and move them across from there it'll work any better.
>>>
>>
>> Mousetext is not just text. It is a mode that changes the “inverse text”
>> font. So there’s no string of characters that will cause Mousetext to be
>> displayed on an Apple II.
>>
>> Instead, it requires a POKE to switch to the alternate (Mousetext) inverse
>> text font, followed by some regular ASCII characters which will be
>> displayed as Mousetext.
>>
>> ProTerm must have a screen format that uses some escape sequence to shift
>> from inverse text into Mousetext, but this is not a standard—it’s just a
>> programming choice by the author(s) Of ProTerm.
>>
>> I suggest reading the ProTerm manual to discover how to cause it to render
>> Mousetext.
>>
>
> Out of curiosity, I went to my ProTERM 3 manual, and starting on page 188
> in chapter 12 it describes the ProTERM Special terminal emulation. The
> second subsection is “ProTERM Special Emulation Programming”, which
> describes the control characters and sequences and what they do. I’m
> guessing that the needed Mousetext-enabling control character (Ctrl-P) is
> not getting sent prior to your screens containing Mousetext.
>
> --
> -michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://michaeljmahon.com
Will do some RTM I didn't think it would be quite this complicated. Still I'm up for the challenge. I think perhaps I should also look at the earlier mentioned street scenes just in case its something peculiar to Mousetrap.
For what its worth, the Avatar/ANSI/ASCII screens are just a create, dump into a directory and they get read and displayed when the menu is accessed. I was hoping by using an "editor" I could accomplish the same thing with pts.
A
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| Re: ptspecial [message #374530 is a reply to message #374525] |
Fri, 12 October 2018 09:17 |
Jeff Blakeney
Messages: 127
Registered: September 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2018-10-12 7:00 AM, Anthony Adverse wrote:
> For what its worth, the Avatar/ANSI/ASCII screens are just a create,
> dump into a directory and they get read and displayed when the menu
> is accessed. I was hoping by using an "editor" I could accomplish
> the same thing with pts.
The problem you might be running into is that there is a difference
between MouseText and ProTERM Special Emulation. A MouseText editor
won't necessarily produce PTSE output. It might have an option for it
but no guarantee. If you find a program that says it is a PTSE editor,
you should be all set.
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| Re: ptspecial [message #374536 is a reply to message #374525] |
Fri, 12 October 2018 11:57 |
Hugh Hood
Messages: 689
Registered: November 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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in article 4a7c44e9-54a0-427c-b9db-84905e6e4695@googlegroups.com, Anthony
Adverse at the.ertceps@gmail.com wrote on 10/12/18 6:00 AM:
>
> Will do some RTM I didn't think it would be quite this complicated. Still I'm
> up for the challenge. I think perhaps I should also look at the earlier
> mentioned street scenes just in case its something peculiar to Mousetrap.
>
Anthony,
Unfortunately I don't have access to the files listed below, and to get
access someone would probably need to contact Jerry Cline, but the old Insyc
/ ProTERM bulletin board listed the following files in its ProTERM Special
Emulations section:
--------------------------------
Library #4: ProTERM Special Emulations Library
# Name Type Size Date Time Downloads
1. AD.CENTER TXT 2.5K 27-APR-92 04:24 DL=12
2. AD.MUSIC TXT 2.0K 26-JUL-90 18:15 DL=20
3. ALLNIGHTER TXT 4.5K 04-AUG-91 19:36 DL=17
4. AMERICA2 TXT 0.5K 16-DEC-92 11:07 DL=8
5. APL.LAND.PSE TXT 4.5K 29-AUG-90 13:19 DL=12
6. APPLE.BYTE.GS TXT 3.5K 04-AUG-91 19:42 DL=16
7. APPLE.ELITE.AD TXT 4.5K 20-AUG-90 21:17 DL=13
8. APPLE.LAND TXT 5.5K 17-AUG-90 10:14 DL=15
9. APPLE.LAND. TXT 3.5K 17-OCT-90 22:17 DL=13
10. APPLE.SAUCE.PTS TXT 7.0K 26-JUL-90 18:21 DL=16
11. APPLELANDADD TXT 4.5K 13-AUG-90 18:03 DL=12
12. ARSENAL.FREEDOM TXT 19.5K 04-AUG-91 19:34 DL=15
13. ATLANTIC TXT 3.0K 04-AUG-91 19:42 DL=12
14. BATTLE.TANKS TXT 8.0K 04-AUG-91 19:45 DL=17
15. BATTLEFIELD.AD TXT 8.0K 04-AUG-91 19:43 DL=13
16. BONE.CELLER TXT 4.5K 04-AUG-91 19:41 DL=14
17. CALL.838.7427 TXT 8.0K 23-JUN-91 22:37 DL=12
18. CHRISTMAS.PSE TXT 2.5K 16-DEC-90 00:46 DL=14
19. COMPTRWRKSINTRO TXT 4.5K 29-SEP-90 15:05 DL=13
20. GATES.LOGON TXT 2.5K 22-JUN-91 22:21 DL=12
21. GS.BEGINNING TXT 3.0K 31-JUL-90 18:49 DL=15
22. INSYNC.PSE TXT 0.5K 24-JUL-90 15:40 DL=14
23. INTRO.12.BN0 LBR 3.5K 02-SEP-92 20:51 DL=8
24. INTRO.12.BNY LBR 0.5K 02-SEP-92 20:51 DL=7
25. MONKEY.BUSINESS TXT 6.0K 04-AUG-91 19:33 DL=12
26. MOUSETRAP.SHK LBR 40.0K 06-MAY-91 00:50 DL=14
27. PARANOIMIA TXT 4.5K 04-AUG-91 19:41 DL=11
28. PRAYER.TOWER TXT 4.0K 04-AUG-91 19:40 DL=13
29. PSE.DEMO.1 TXT 4.5K 31-JUL-90 18:49 DL=15
30. PSE.DEMO.3 TXT 4.5K 31-JUL-90 18:50 DL=13
31. PSE.DEMO.5 TXT 4.5K 31-JUL-90 18:50 DL=13
32. PSE.DEMO.7 TXT 4.5K 31-JUL-90 18:51 DL=12
33. PSE.DEMO.8 TXT 28.0K 31-JUL-90 18:51 DL=14
34. PSE.READ.ME.1ST TXT 2.0K 21-MAR-91 17:07 DL=15
35. PSEUDO.PTSE.000 TXT 7.0K 22-OCT-92 16:08 DL=2
36. PSEUDO.PTSE.1 TXT 0.5K 22-OCT-92 16:08 DL=2
37. PSVIEW4.2C.SHK LBR 34.5K 06-MAY-91 00:47 DL=20
38. PTSE.AD.2 TXT 3.0K 01-AUG-90 18:46 DL=11
39. PTSE.AD.3 TXT 2.5K 01-AUG-90 18:46 DL=11
40. PTSE.ANIMATION TXT 5.0K 01-AUG-90 18:46 DL=17
41. PTSE.ANIMATION2 TXT 5.0K 01-AUG-90 18:47 DL=14
42. RAMBO TXT 3.5K 26-JUL-90 12:35 DL=13
43. RIVER.BOAT TXT 4.5K 04-AUG-91 19:39 DL=15
44. SAW.SHOP TXT 5.0K 04-AUG-91 19:39 DL=12
45. SCREEN.CLEAR TXT 0.5K 31-JUL-90 18:54 DL=19
46. SHR.TO.PSE.SHK LBR 34.5K 18-JAN-92 12:41 DL=21
47. SPACE.MOVIE TXT 6.5K 04-AUG-91 19:37 DL=20
48. SPACEWAR.PSE TXT 6.5K 27-JUL-90 16:35 DL=15
49. STUPIDANDFUNNY TXT 8.5K 04-AUG-91 19:44 DL=16
50. TLOC.AD.PTSE TXT 8.0K 05-AUG-90 15:39 DL=7
51. TLOC.AD1 TXT 2.5K 10-AUG-90 15:17 DL=9
52. TLOC.PTSE.2 TXT 4.5K 05-AUG-90 15:39 DL=7
53. TLOC.PTSE.2.1 TXT 4.5K 05-AUG-90 15:38 DL=8
54. TRAIN.M TXT 4.5K 27-JUL-90 18:17 DL=12
55. TV.PSE TXT 8.5K 04-AUG-91 19:38 DL=19
---------------------------------
I would imagine that an examination of those Text files would be most
instructive for those wishing to tap into the power of PTSE.
Hugh Hood
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| Re: ptspecial [message #374537 is a reply to message #374525] |
Fri, 12 October 2018 12:12 |
Michael J. Mahon
Messages: 1772
Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Anthony Adverse <the.ertceps@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Friday, October 12, 2018 at 5:50:50 PM UTC+11, Michael J. Mahon wrote:
>> Michael J. Mahon <mjmahon@aol.com> wrote:
>>> Anthony Adverse <the.ertceps@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Curiouser and curiouser... said screens saved out of MouseTrap don't
>>>> actually appear to be mousetext. I managed to find the speed AppleAccess
>>>> will work at I think.... 1200, sheesh feels slow. So out of the emulated
>>>> GS, into a shrinkit file, over to the clone e, check the reads, there's
>>>> no lf's just cr's, but none of the characters look like mousetext now.
>>>> And the asc values just look like regular ASCII set. Wonder if I just
>>>> try making them on the clone and move them across from there it'll work any better.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Mousetext is not just text. It is a mode that changes the “inverse text”
>>> font. So there’s no string of characters that will cause Mousetext to be
>>> displayed on an Apple II.
>>>
>>> Instead, it requires a POKE to switch to the alternate (Mousetext) inverse
>>> text font, followed by some regular ASCII characters which will be
>>> displayed as Mousetext.
>>>
>>> ProTerm must have a screen format that uses some escape sequence to shift
>>> from inverse text into Mousetext, but this is not a standard—it’s just a
>>> programming choice by the author(s) Of ProTerm.
>>>
>>> I suggest reading the ProTerm manual to discover how to cause it to render
>>> Mousetext.
>>>
>>
>> Out of curiosity, I went to my ProTERM 3 manual, and starting on page 188
>> in chapter 12 it describes the ProTERM Special terminal emulation. The
>> second subsection is “ProTERM Special Emulation Programming”, which
>> describes the control characters and sequences and what they do. I’m
>> guessing that the needed Mousetext-enabling control character (Ctrl-P) is
>> not getting sent prior to your screens containing Mousetext.
>>
>> --
>> -michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://michaeljmahon.com
>
> Will do some RTM I didn't think it would be quite this complicated.
> Still I'm up for the challenge. I think perhaps I should also look at
> the earlier mentioned street scenes just in case its something peculiar to Mousetrap.
>
> For what its worth, the Avatar/ANSI/ASCII screens are just a create, dump
> into a directory and they get read and displayed when the menu is
> accessed. I was hoping by using an "editor" I could accomplish the same thing with pts.
>
> A
>
Also consider that control characters may not be preserved when files are
transferred between machines as text files. Be sure to use binary transfers
to ensure that the contents are preserved.
--
-michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://michaeljmahon.com
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| Re: ptspecial [message #374601 is a reply to message #374525] |
Sat, 13 October 2018 21:55 |
Hugh Hood
Messages: 689
Registered: November 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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in article 4a7c44e9-54a0-427c-b9db-84905e6e4695@googlegroups.com, Anthony
Adverse at the.ertceps@gmail.com wrote on 10/12/18 6:00 AM:
>
> I was hoping by using an "editor" I could accomplish the same thing with
> pts.
>
Anthony,
I've located Ron Mercer's 'ProTERM Special Viewer/Editor' program (version
4.2C) , and have uploaded it to Asimov.
When available, it will be called 'ProTERMSpecialViewerEditor.po'.
Although I'm a fan of ProTERM, I never played with PTSE much, so I'm no
authority on its use. By examining the documentation on the disk image, and
playing with the program a bit, it appears you can add MouseText, Inverse,
spinning cursors, tones, etc. to your heart's content.
Here's the brief description:
About the program
-----------------
ProTERM Special Viewer (PSVIEW for short) is a program which will allow you
to VIEW and EDIT your ProTERM Special Emulation (PSE) text files.
What are ProTERM Special Emulation text files?
----------------------------------------------
ProTERM Special Emualation text files are text files which use the ProTERM
Special terminal emulation from a terminal program called ProTERM (by Greg
Schaefer). These files have special control characters imbedded in them
which will do various things, such as display Mousetext characters, do
screen positions, highlight text, and play music [sound stuff (via the
Control-T command)].
FWIW, Mercer also mentions that he was working on a version 5.0 of the
program, but this is the best I can do at the moment.
Enjoy. If you do create some screens, be sure and try to share them. I'd
like to see what I've been missing all these years.
{FWIW2 - Ewen Wannop's Spectrum telecom program for the IIGS also offers a
ProTERM Special Emulation setting, so ProTERM isn't the only program that
will display these screens}.
Hugh Hood
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| Re: ptspecial [message #374608 is a reply to message #374601] |
Sun, 14 October 2018 00:53 |
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Originally posted by: Anthony Adverse
> {FWIW2 - Ewen Wannop's Spectrum telecom program for the IIGS also offers a
> ProTERM Special Emulation setting, so ProTERM isn't the only program that
> will display these screens}.
At the moment you can only see my bad ones :) They were put together to look like a typical set of application windows. But don't crlf properly. I'll keep an eye out for the editor. To be honest I don't recall in the ptspecial screens I saw anything super exciting. A bit like vt-100 with spinning cursors as you mentioned.
Not sure which BBS it was on now, but one used to have a logo screen that looked like a cityscape with fireworks going off around a spire, that was
reasonably impressive looking. Certainly enough to stick with me.
A
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| Re: ptspecial [message #376351 is a reply to message #374608] |
Tue, 20 November 2018 23:20 |
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Originally posted by: Anthony Adverse
I finally got a round-tuit for the pt special menu screens for TLP... strangely enough adding CR/LF's in place of CF's didn't fix my problem, although it did find me a new one.
The PT Specials have suddenly gone to double spacing, but that might be some busted ASCII translation, because I couldn't manage to send them in an archive.
Point two, I can't get archives made with shrinkit-3.x under P8 on CloneE to extract with NuLib under ms-dos... error this and error that.. corrupt, not an archive. All sorts of things. I'm going to guess its versioning.. the ms-dos version has got to be 20 years if its a day and it used to work with shrinkit back then.. so maybe I'll have to find an antique shrinkit to go with
Me
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| Re: ptspecial [message #376754 is a reply to message #373928] |
Tue, 27 November 2018 00:10 |
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Originally posted by: Anthony Adverse
I was just noticing while poking through a Metal archive, that it has a converter for CR to LF. I was under the impression that both CR and LF were required, so in my converted files I put both in. Might be why I ended up with double spacing.
Any thoughts?
A
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| Re: ptspecial [message #376817 is a reply to message #376754] |
Tue, 27 November 2018 21:15 |
Hugh Hood
Messages: 689
Registered: November 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Anthony,
The text file line-ending conventions are:
MS-DOS/Windows = CR + LF
Apple = CR
Unix = LF
Using the MS-DOS convention (CR + LF) on a system expecting the Apple
convention will result in double-spaced lines.
Most text editors these days will auto-detect the line-endings and act
appropriately. Even AppleWorks 5.1 (with the InitPack mods) will
auto-detect all three and allow you to convert between them when you
re-save the file.
Hugh Hood
On 11/26/2018 11:10 PM, Anthony Adverse wrote:
> I was just noticing while poking through a Metal archive, that it has a converter for CR to LF. I was under the impression that both CR and LF were required, so in my converted files I put both in. Might be why I ended up with double spacing.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> A
>
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| Re: ptspecial [message #376823 is a reply to message #376817] |
Tue, 27 November 2018 23:01 |
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Originally posted by: Anthony Adverse
On Wednesday, November 28, 2018 at 1:15:15 PM UTC+11, Hugh Hood wrote:
> Anthony,
>
> The text file line-ending conventions are:
>
> MS-DOS/Windows = CR + LF
> Apple = CR
> Unix = LF
>
> Using the MS-DOS convention (CR + LF) on a system expecting the Apple
> convention will result in double-spaced lines.
>
> Most text editors these days will auto-detect the line-endings and act
> appropriately. Even AppleWorks 5.1 (with the InitPack mods) will
> auto-detect all three and allow you to convert between them when you
> re-save the file.
>
>
>
>
> Hugh Hood
>
>
This is in effect still trying to get an Apple document to come out of an MSDOS bbs properly. So it was always going to be complicated.
I took an existing 80 chr width file read it in until it hit a CR chr$(13)and then swapped it for a CRLF chr$(13)+chr$(12). This resulted in double spacing coming out of the BBS. So I wonder despite these conventions on each platform if there's some kind of "terminal" convention that uses one or the other. My next trial will have to be swap all my crlf's for lf's instead. I did my translation with AppleSoft, I don't have any of the above to do translation.
A
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| Re: ptspecial [message #376840 is a reply to message #376839] |
Wed, 28 November 2018 01:25 |
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Originally posted by: Anthony Adverse
On Wednesday, November 28, 2018 at 4:30:38 PM UTC+11, qkumba wrote:
>> CRLF chr$(13)+chr$(12)
>
> If that's not a typo, then try chr$(10) instead of 12.
It might be, I'll have to check on CloneE... it is confirmed as a 10 in the actual conversion.
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| Re: ptspecial [message #376855 is a reply to message #376840] |
Wed, 28 November 2018 03:37 |
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Originally posted by: Anthony Adverse
On Wednesday, November 28, 2018 at 5:25:58 PM UTC+11, Anthony Adverse wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 28, 2018 at 4:30:38 PM UTC+11, qkumba wrote:
>>> CRLF chr$(13)+chr$(12)
>>
>> If that's not a typo, then try chr$(10) instead of 12.
>
> It might be, I'll have to check on CloneE... it is confirmed as a 10 in the actual conversion.
not only is the chr$(10) confirmed, but I think I better rebuild those screens from scratch and try editing them again. They look like complete rubbish now :)
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| Re: ptspecial [message #376868 is a reply to message #376855] |
Wed, 28 November 2018 07:46 |
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Originally posted by: Delfs
Did you look for a logic bomb like counting column 0-80?
Did you try viewing on a display in 132 column mode?
Some times you have to set a column width of 78 vs 80 so the display output firmware doesn’t count 80 characters and move down a line.
Sometimes if you display a character in the last column the firmware can move the cursor to the first column of the next line and then ‘prints’ the line feed. So 79 characters+cr means the cr prints in the last column which moves to the next line then the LineFeed hits...
It just depends on the display mode. I ran into display quirks programming in basic back in the day and reverted to spacing everything for 40 columns padding with space character (32) to make a continuous string per paragraph. Works on 40 or 80 columns and almost every display.
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| Re: ptspecial [message #376934 is a reply to message #376868] |
Wed, 28 November 2018 15:40 |
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Originally posted by: Anthony Adverse
On Wednesday, November 28, 2018 at 11:46:51 PM UTC+11, Delfs wrote:
> Did you look for a logic bomb like counting column 0-80?
>
> Did you try viewing on a display in 132 column mode?
>
> Some times you have to set a column width of 78 vs 80 so the display output firmware doesn’t count 80 characters and move down a line.
>
> Sometimes if you display a character in the last column the firmware can move the cursor to the first column of the next line and then ‘prints’ the line feed. So 79 characters+cr means the cr prints in the last column which moves to the next line then the LineFeed hits...
>
> It just depends on the display mode. I ran into display quirks programming in basic back in the day and reverted to spacing everything for 40 columns padding with space character (32) to make a continuous string per paragraph. Works on 40 or 80 columns and almost every display.
I didn't bother with counting characters, I read the file 1 char at a time until I hit a CR and the replaced it. However the array I read it into was only 80chars long. None of the lines would be close to the full 80 in actuality anyway. This is a menu centered on the screen, not full screen ascii art or anything like that. When I write it back, I write it one complete line at a time.
I don't think I have anything that will display at 132col and make sense of the file that is. It just looks like rubbish if I feed it into joe on the server, or qedit in ms-sod. <- no typo
I located the archive I used to get them over to CloneE to try and work on them, so I'll check the line lengths just to be sure this time, and try replacing CR with LF just to check that one out too.
A
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