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From: aeq@pucc-h (Jeff Sargent)
Newsgroups: net.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Evidences for Religion (reposting)
Message-ID: <2132@pucc-h>
Date: Thu, 18-Jul-85 05:18:52 EDT
Article-I.D.: pucc-h.2132
Posted: Thu Jul 18 05:18:52 1985
Date-Received: Sat, 20-Jul-85 06:41:39 EDT
References: <1228@pyuxd.UUCP>
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Lines: 69

From Rich Rosen (pyuxd!rlr):

> It is shoddy to build notions from what one wishes for rather than what
> there is evidence for.  I would have thought that was clear.  At the root,
> we do share the same assumptions, but religious believers regularly choose
> to just arbitrarily make exceptions to make their beliefs fit, as with the
> wishful thinking notions of the existence of god in and of itself. 

I think that when Hutch referred to "shoddy thinking" he meant places where
there might be an error in the actual process of thinking, rather than in
the basic assumptions.  And again, it is only because your basic assumptions
rule out anything other than empirical evidence that you consider the evidence
for the life and power of God to be wishful thinking.  (As I wrote you
privately, isn't your strong assertion that all religious belief is wishful
thinking the surest proof that you yourself wish it to be true?  That's the
only way you would have any excuse for that sweeping claim to know how
believers think when you make so much noise about not being one -- that you
know, or think you know, what would have to happen to enable you to come to
a belief in God.)

> Sargent above made the statement about current speculation about
> extraterrestrials.  Clearly the story of Genesis, in which it is detailed
> how god created the earth and then the other "heavenly bodies" makes the
> earth (and later, humanity) the focal point of god's creation.  To suddenly
> admit that the earth is just like any other planet in the universe in terms
> of origin, and not something special (thus offering the potential for other
> life on those other planets) would contradict that story.

Actually, the statement about speculation about ET's was by someone else
(Wingate?).  My comment (not quoted by Rich in this article) was that the
Bible was written by and for humans, so certainly the earth and humanity
are the focal point of the *Bible*.  And I must agree with Wingate that if
earth is something special, it is so in a negative sense (that this is a
planet that needs to be saved -- i.e., a planet full of people so badly
wounded that they tend to blindly wound others [often innocent victims],
people who need healing for their wounds and release from their tendency
[indeed, often desire] to accept being less than fully creative and loving
human beings, people who could live in a Godlike condition of joy but need
to be fed the love and confidence necessary to be such full persons).

> "to be nobody but yourself in a world which is doing its best night and day
>  to make you like everybody else means to fight the hardest battle any human
>  being can fight and never stop fighting."  - e. e. cummings

While some who call themselves Christians may be trying to create this
homogeneity, Christ has no such intention.  More than once the Bible refers
to Christians being different parts of the same body, each with different
gifts, abilities, strengths, and weaknesses; it strongly makes the point
that, for instance, a "foot" should not think itself not part of the body
because it is not a "hand".

In fact, cummings's statement fits well into Christianity.  Several times
throughout the New Testament the image of a fight is used -- a fight against
the forces of evil, which seek to kill the Godlike life given to you when
you meet Christ, and make you into just another blindly acting chunk of meat
(or at best, an animal).  Be careful that you do not (or have not) fall into
this yourself -- e.g. with mechanical repetitions of the phrase "wishful
thinking", which you seem to use as a charm or an anesthetic to keep yourself
from the quite possibly terrifying perception that there is a God there who
loves you so much He hates to see you as anything less than your best, and
will do anything to help you, and convince you, to give up your past wounds
(no matter how painful the healing) and live up to your fullest Godlike
potential, to be the person that He hoped you'd be in the first place.

-- 
-- Jeff Sargent
{decvax|harpo|ihnp4|inuxc|ucbvax}!pur-ee!pucc-h!aeq
If you don't bet your life on at least one wild-looking chance before you die,
then you won't have really lived....