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From: rlr@pyuxd.UUCP (Dr. Emmanuel Wu)
Newsgroups: net.religion,net.politics
Subject: Re: Don Black, Nazis, and the amazing disappearing Holocaust
Message-ID: <797@pyuxd.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 28-Mar-85 12:57:04 EST
Article-I.D.: pyuxd.797
Posted: Thu Mar 28 12:57:04 1985
Date-Received: Fri, 29-Mar-85 01:36:29 EST
References: <386@gargoyle.UChicago.UUCP>
Organization: STRONGARM COLLECTION AGENCY: We have no slogan
Lines: 76
Xref: watmath net.religion:6344 net.politics:8270
>>> Actually, having just finished reading *Mein
>>>Kampf* I would have been disappointed if Hitler HADN'T tried to kill all
>>>of the Jews.
>>>Was Hitler wrong in killing the Jews? Well, history has already made that
>>>judgement, he lost the war. Therefore, even by his standards he can be
>>>judged a failure and in the wrong. Is he wrong JUST because he exterminated
>>>6 million Jews? That one is tougher. [RUSS SPENCE]
>> Yes, this one's a real toughie, so let's warm up on an easier one,
>> recently posed by Don Black. Are the Jews living today responsible
>> in part for the crucifixion of Christ? At first glance, this appears
>> to be one of those insoluble legal conundrums, but then we recall
>> that in most courts of law, it is considered an extenuating
>> circumstance if the crime was committed 1,900 years before the birth
>> of the alleged perpetrators. So I would have to say, pending further
>> reflection and the appearance of additional witnesses and/or
>> evidence, that living Jews such as my apartment-mate George cannot be
>> held fully responsible for the death of Christ. (George denies any
>> involvement, but what did you expect. Hey, you want I should torture
>> him to make him confess?) [RICHARD CARNES]
I saw no smileys in either article, so I have to be appalled that even the
thought of blaming the death of Jesus on the *Jewish* *people* even crosses
the minds of modern Christians. As Carnes says above, "Oh, I don't know if
we can still blame them today, but they WERE responsible for it originally,
no?" Saying "but gee, my roommate is Jewish" isn't the point". Nor is
whether or not the whole article was submitted with sarcasm in mind. The
point is, as Wingate showed us himself, that anti-Semitism, though perhaps
of a variety more subliminal than it is vicious/overt, is still a prominent
piece of the mindset of many modern Christians, as reinforced (also
perhaps not "overtly") by religious teaching. This makes it all the more
important to debunk people like Black and his Nazi literature, because,
despite Dave Brown's pacifist cheekturning ("It's <1% of the population"),
there are historical lessons about such vocal minorities that have gone
unlearned. Since the seeds of such beliefs are apparently already in place
(e.g., "the Jews as a people killed Jesus, and we are now thinking, even if
in a joking way, about whether or not today's Jews are responsible"), it's
not hard for fascist propaganda to work its way into the mainstream line of
thought.
>>Sure the simple answer is that genocide
>>is evil and since Hitler tried to kill all of the Jews, he is evil too.
>>This is a very nice and simple answer.
> Incredibly simplistic. It's amazing the way people will jump to
> conclusions and jump all over a guy just because he tries to wipe out
> a race or ethnic group. It's sad that there is such prejudice in the
> world. Look, sometimes it's just an honest mistake, and people make
> mistakes, right? Well, anyway, I have thunk and thunk about whether
> Hitler was wrong JUST because he exterminated 6 million Jews, but I
> still can't get a handle on this one. Maybe if some of the best net
> brains put their heads together we can get somewhere with this
> question. Any ideas out there?
Of course the answer to the question "Is it wrong to wipe out an entire
race of people because you dislike them?" is obvious. Whether or not,
as Spence claims, "our" side also did wrong things. (Which it did. Japanese
internment camps were just as racist as Hitler's death camps, though perhaps
less murder and violence resulted. No one said there had to be a "right"
side, although some assume that there is and that it's always their own...)
The obviousness of the answer is the very reason why Nazis of today must
claim that the atrocities never happened, in order that they might happen
again. We know what Nazism (and its clone, Identity Christianity) are all
about, so the proponents must somehow dissociate themselves from our
conceptions of such movements. Fortunately for them, the big lie technique
still works: if you repeat a lie often enough and forcefully enough ("There's
no evidence that the holocaust really happened..."), it will be believed. And
those who meekly back off and say "What's my stake in answering or debunking
these ideas? This is a crackpot minority, who cares?", as most of the
Christian community on this net do, can eventually lead to propagation of the
racist ideas in the mainstream. That's what both Christians and Jews did
the last time in response to such big lies. I guess Jews know that there's
more of a stake in not doing so this time. But others don't.
--
"Wait a minute. '*WE*' decided??? *MY* best interests????"
Rich Rosen ihnp4!pyuxd!rlr