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From: mms1646@acf4.UUCP (Michael M. Sykora)
Newsgroups: net.philosophy
Subject: Re: To Laura:  outlook on life and free will
Message-ID: <1310003@acf4.UUCP>
Date: Mon, 1-Apr-85 02:05:00 EST
Article-I.D.: acf4.1310003
Posted: Mon Apr  1 02:05:00 1985
Date-Received: Wed, 3-Apr-85 02:16:27 EST
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Organization: New York University
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>RE: From: rlr@pyuxd.UUCP
>    Subject: Re: To Laura:  outlook on life and free will

Allow me to interject a point or two here:


>But you don't know the "stage instructions".  You have no knowledge of
>your future actions (as you just said).  No matter whether they are
>predetermined and predictable or not, you are still about to partake of
>those actions and their consequences.  And to experience them fully.

Exactly when does one come to know the "stage instructions," only at the time
of action?  Assuming you brain communicates instructions to your body,
how and where from does your brain obtain this information ?

>To which I say again:  so?  I have self-respect.  I learn from the
>experiences around me, and those experiences led me to have the self-respect
>that I not have, and mold my reactions to the world and allow me to 
>experience it in the way that I do.  I take pride in my actions, because
>doing so is part of my nature, and by doing so I improve my life through
>learning and doing.

Self-respect implies a self.  What is this self that you're refering to?
By the way, "mold my reactions" and "I improve my life through learning and
doing" sound conspicuously like statements of a free will.

>> However, without self-respect, I find that the things that once gave me
>> joy can no longer give me joy. My joy was a very selfish and personal
>> joy, and I now see that my self is no more significant than any other
>> thing that is. To actually believe this would cause me to literally go
>> out like a candle. I could no longer have any aesthetic appreciation for
>> anything, and I could no longer value anything. I would see no reason to
>> value anything over any other thing, since they are all as they had to be.

>On the contrary, I feel just as much reason for feeling joy and for
>enjoying things in life, especially knowing that every experience I've
>had has actually led me to the point where I am right now, giving me
>my perspective, my taste, my capacity for enjoying things in life.  You're
>damn right:  *your* self is no more significant than any other thing that is.
>To believe that is deeply irrational, self-centered, and egocentric.  BUT,
>for you, the organism that IS you, the experiences that you have ARE
>most important.  Not in the fabric of the whole universe, but from your
>own perspective.  Each experience molds your life, changes your outlook,
>etc.  If you take the steps to let it.  I hope what I am saying would
>influence you to choose to do so.

By mentioning self-centeredness and egocentricity, you imply that there is
something wrong with them.  But if someone is self-centered they are not,
according to your contention, that way by choice.  Then why bother bringing
it up?  What significance could it possibly have?

"fabric of the whole universe" -- Huh???

How can what you are saying INFLUENCE anyone to CHOOSE to do anything, if they
don't have free will?  What meaning does INFLUENCE have here?  (Presumably,
you are not connected physically to the person you're INFLUENCing.)