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From: ethan@utastro.UUCP (Ethan Vishniac)
Newsgroups: net.origins
Subject: Re: Orphaned Response
Message-ID: <1119@utastro.UUCP>
Date: Sun, 17-Mar-85 18:13:32 EST
Article-I.D.: utastro.1119
Posted: Sun Mar 17 18:13:32 1985
Date-Received: Wed, 20-Mar-85 03:58:52 EST
References: <-20600@ihnet.UUCP> <14600003@hpfcrs.UUCP>
Organization: U. Texas, Astronomy, Austin, TX
Lines: 67

> 
>      That's funny -- the Bible I read never said the earth was flat.  You
> better go learn to read!
> 
Oddly enough, I don't seem to have any problems in that department. :-)

>      Your supposedly *scientific* theory of evolution can't even answer the
> simple question of where all matter came from in the first place, or what was
> here before the beginning, or what lies beyond the universe -- need I say
> any more about the primitive nature of the theory of evolution?
> 
This has been said before, but I haven't yet given up.  Science is the process
of relating observations to one another in ways that suggest further
relationships and illuminate the nature of the observed phenomena.  By its very
nature it proceeds from the realm of specialized and limited theories to the
more general and sweeping kind.  As a result it is characterized by the
tentative nature of the results and by a limited range of strict applicability.
A theory gains acceptance if it predicts future observations that are
subsequently verified.  The most convincing evidence of all comes from
predictions that are not only subsequently verified, but for which no clear
rationale exists among competing theories.  In this respect the theory of
evolution scored impressively by predicting the degree of biochemical affinity
among species.  Modern geology (which is not the same of the theory of
evolution although the distinction is not commonly made in this group) did
similarly well when the order of the geological column (established well before
Darwin) was confirmed by radioactive dating of rock formations.

"Complete" theories, of the kind you seem to be demanding, are preferable to
incomplete ones only if they have some empirical basis. Anyone can invent
grand and beautiful theories explaining life, the universe, and everything.
Science demands that such theories have a clear empirical meaning and a 
relationship to our observations of the world.  It doesn't take a lot of
insight to realize that no such "scientific" theory exists, or has much
prospect of existing.  This doesn't strike me as a particularly telling
blow against science.   As an aside, "scientific creationism" is in one
important respect worse than baseless speculation on such topics, since it
contradicts the sucessful "incomplete" theories based on evolution.

>      If you think the Creation story will vanish while Evolution prevades,
> you have a severely limited knowledge of history -- namely that Creation has
> been with us since the beginning of time, while Evolution has only come on
> the scene since the 19th century, obviously another passing fad.
> 
I trust you forgot the little :-) after that last comment :-).  Homicide,
child abuse, disease and war have also been with us since the beginning of
history (I will not say since the beginning of time).  Not to mention poetry
and love.  For better or worse I expect them to continue.  Creationism is
neither the best or the worst of the things that may well be with us into
the forseeable future.

>      Now for those folks who insist that the Biblical story of creation is
> only a metaphor or a Fable, what is your proof of such assertation?  Until
> you can prove your point, don't waste your breath.  The Creation story sure
> makes alot more scense than the theory of evolution.
> 
> Lief Sorensen

Hmm.. proof in science is proof beyond all reasonable doubt, not beyond a shadowof a doubt.  I'd say evolution is proved in the former sense.  Nothing in
science is proved in the latter sense.  As to what makes sense to you...
Whatever makes you happy Lief, just don't confuse it with science and we'll
both be happier.


"Don't argue with a fool.      Ethan Vishniac
 Borrow his money."            {charm,ut-sally,ut-ngp,noao}!utastro!ethan

*Anyone who wants to claim these opinions is welcome to them.*