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From: friesen@psivax.UUCP (Stanley Friesen)
Newsgroups: net.origins
Subject: Re: Origin of life
Message-ID: <360@psivax.UUCP>
Date: Mon, 11-Mar-85 13:48:52 EST
Article-I.D.: psivax.360
Posted: Mon Mar 11 13:48:52 1985
Date-Received: Thu, 14-Mar-85 03:37:49 EST
References: <14600002@hpfcrs.UUCP>
Reply-To: friesen@psivax.UUCP (Stanley friesen)
Organization: Pacesetter Systems Inc., Sylmar, CA
Lines: 76
Summary: 


In article <14600002@hpfcrs.UUCP> lief@hpfcrs.UUCP (lief) writes:
>The reply by Stanley Friesen was:
>
>>	This question is based on misleading semantics.  Pure chance?
>>Modern advances in cosmology and organic chemistry seem to be heading
>>towards the conclusion that life is *inevitable* given the right
>>initial conditions.  Random amino/nucleic acids? See previous point,
>>the associtions of these chemicals which form under natural conditions
>>are *just* those necessary for life to form. 4.6 *billion* years
>>restricted?? Doyou have any idea how *long* that really is, especially
>>considering the recent evidence for a relatively rapid pace of
>>evolution.
>
>I would ask Mr. Friesen:
>
>1)  What are the right initial conditions to make *life* inevitable?
>    If you say you don't know, then how can you assume that the right
>    initial conditions exsist?

	I do not know the exact values, but the following general
results follow from many biochemical experiments:
	Free molecular Carbon in the atmosphere(e.g Carbon Dioxide).
	Water existing in both liquid and vapor phases.
	Sufficient light to drive photochemical reactions, and provide
energy for other reactions..
	Absence of pure Oxygen, or other oxidizing compounds.
>
>2)  You say "...the associations of these chemicals which form under
>    natural conditions are *just* those necessary for life to form."
>    Does this mean that the result of properly associating these
>    chemicals results in *life*?
>
	I meant "exactly", that is the chemicals which form are
those needed for life and the chemicals needed for life invariably
form. I then note that to go from the complex building blocks that
have been demonstrated to form in th laboratory, and by astronomers,
to a simple living organism is a small step.

>3)  "...recent evidence for a relatively rapid pace of evolution."
>    Could you list some of this factual evidence for me?
>
>Sounds to me like you are making an awfully large claim for evolution.
>Has any scientist ever put *life* into anything?  According to you,
>the scientific world knows what is involved in doing just this.  How
>can anyone call it *scientific* when making claims which are based on
>nothing more than imagination?
>
	I am here refering to the large body of work which goes under
the name "puncuated equilibrium theory". To find the evidence go to
ypur local university library and read any book by Dr. Gould, or any
symposium debating the above theory. This literature is *extensive*.
You may also try reading Ernst Mayr for a more "moderate" form of the
Puntuated Equilibrium concept.

>Mr. Friesen, it is easy to make general statements about anything.
>But it's quite another to state facts and evidence.  Make one single
>blade of grass, or put life into 1 amoeba, and maybe I'll listen to
>you.  However, until you actually go out and make something as simple
>as a carrot seed (should be no problem according to your above statements),
>and it grows, don't try to tell us that you have a handle on making *life*!
>
	I hope I have made a start here on citing at least the
*sources* of my evidence(there is too much to actually include).
A carrot seed SIMPLE?!?!?! It is *very* complex. Even an amoeba
is very complex. Perhaps some of the newly discovered organisms
simpler than a bacterium *may* be simple enough to qualify as
candidates for similarity to the original living thing.
In less than 10 years I expect to see such thing created in the
laboratory.
-- 

				Sarima (Stanley Friesen)

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