Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site water.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!water!jbtubman From: jbtubman@water.UUCP (Jim Tubman ) Newsgroups: net.politics Subject: Re: Socialism -- Where Are You Looking? Message-ID: <292@water.UUCP> Date: Tue, 12-Feb-85 16:35:29 EST Article-I.D.: water.292 Posted: Tue Feb 12 16:35:29 1985 Date-Received: Wed, 13-Feb-85 01:59:06 EST References: <280@water.UUCP> <545@topaz.ARPA> Organization: U of Waterloo, Ontario Lines: 36 > > I myself am a conservative, but I don't like seeing ridiculous lies being > > spread about anyone, even a socialist. Most of the ones of my acquaintance > > are rather good people who earnestly want to solve real problems in society, > > by spending other people's money. > > Jim Tubman > > This characterization of most socialists is (a) true, and (b) irrelevant. > Socialism (collectivism) is an example of the "tragedy of the commons" > in group moral behavior. The end result of the interaction of people > under the socialist paradigm, and I'm assuming that most of them are > ordinary, decent people (like Germans were--pre-Nazi Germany was the MOST > liberal/tolerant country in Europe), is a collective result much worse > than most of them would have imagined. > > --JoSH Hmmm, I'm familiar with the "tragedy of the commons" idea, but isn't it the wrong sort of analogy to be using in this case? The tragedy comes from everybody trying to maximize his/her personal gain in a sort of free-for-all -- not the sort of thing that socialists generally rant on about. The socialist's approach would be to have the state seize the common resource (claiming, of course, that it now belongs to "the people" (c.f. the Saskatchewan potash mines)) and erect an enormous bureaucracy to regulate its use. Another wearying layer of bureaucracy, to be sure, and the price of the buy-out might not be satisfactory, but it's hardly despotism. Consider forestry on the Canadian "Crown" lands (I'm not sure what the case is with American Federal land). I must agree that good people can be led astray, but that has been true since the days of Hammurabi. The existance of socialist governments that get elected, serve with varying degrees of competance, and leave power when they are defeated indicates that socialism does not necessarily lead to disaster. Jim Tubman University of Waterloo