Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site unmvax.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!bonnie!akgua!whuxlm!harpo!decvax!genrad!panda!talcott!harvard!seismo!cmcl2!lanl!unmvax!cliff From: cliff@unmvax.UUCP Newsgroups: net.politics.theory Subject: Re: NOT about Libertarianism. Message-ID: <633@unmvax.UUCP> Date: Sun, 3-Feb-85 14:53:42 EST Article-I.D.: unmvax.633 Posted: Sun Feb 3 14:53:42 1985 Date-Received: Sat, 9-Feb-85 06:07:01 EST References: <255@talcott.UUCP><1341@dciem.UUCP> Distribution: net Organization: Univ. of New Mexico, Albuquerque Lines: 60 > Not in net.politics.theory, please. Net.economics.theory perhaps, but > here we should deal with people AS THEY ARE. After all, (almost) all > political theories would produce Utopia if the land were populated > with ideal people (ideal == suited to the theory). > > Libertarians usually deal with ideal people: totally informed, completely > rational about decisions, and capable of correct judgment about the > results of their actions. I would like to know where you got this idea... Libertarians don't care whether people make rational decisions or not. Here is an example of two different hypothetical societies S: Has subsidized medical care for many groups of people--consequently the significant drain on the workers causes many people to lobby for the creation of laws to ban harmful practices. Here's the rub: In society S, the decision of which harmful practices to avoid is made by a few people, some are too widespread to ban (i.e. smoking) and others are not harmful but are banned for political reasons. L: The people who get sick are the people who pay for their medical aid--consequently the unpredictability of some devestating illnesss causes many people to purchase medical insurance. Since there are quite a few different medical insurers there are different guidelines (and penalties) allowing alternative lifestyles. Since the insurers are in it to make a profit, the people who smoke either pay an extra premium or are denied insurance. _________________ (the bottom line) Society S counts on its legislators to be rational people, capable of correct judgement about the results of their actions. Since the action involved is the passing of laws the impact is more significant. When a law is made it is rarely rescinded (even if the conditions that brought about the law have since changed for the better (i.e. income tax and 55 m.p.h. speed limit)). If the legislative class in society S is elected, then that means that the entire voting populace either have little say in what goes on because once someone is elected he does as he sees fit, or the entire voting populace must be rational people, capable of correct judgement about the results of their actions. One real world example is the U.S. where through medicare and medicaid the health industry is subsidized. People now want to pass seat- belt laws saying: Everyone must wear seatbelts. There is little talk of banning smoking, in fact the tobacco industry still receives subsidies. Net result: people have less incentive to stop smoking then in society L (since their medical bills will be subsidized), people who want to ride in a car without seatbelts are prohibited by law and the years lost to cancer still outnumber the years lost to death in vehicle. Society L does not depend on anybody being a rational person, nor does it pro- hibit it. People are free to live their life as they see fit. Most people live their lives by letting others lead (religiously, medically, etc.), so they won't be left out in the dark with no information. Ralph Nader is still allowed to tell others about the consequences of their actions... The cancer society can site facts and figures about the joys of a slow painful death. Insurers will do a better job encouraging safe practices by making it more obvious which bad habits are known to decrease life expectancy. --Cliff [Matthews] {purdue, cmcl2, ihnp4}!lanl!unmvax!cliff {csu-cs, pur-ee, convex, gatech, ucbvax}!unmvax!cliff 4744 Trumbull S.E. - Albuquerque NM 87108 - (505) 265-9143