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From: laura@utzoo.UUCP (Laura Creighton)
Newsgroups: net.religion.christian
Subject: Re: discussions on Roman Catholicism
Message-ID: <5053@utzoo.UUCP>
Date: Sun, 10-Feb-85 13:26:24 EST
Article-I.D.: utzoo.5053
Posted: Sun Feb 10 13:26:24 1985
Date-Received: Sun, 10-Feb-85 13:26:24 EST
References: <1311@bbncca.ARPA>, <3598@mit-eddie.UUCP>
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology
Lines: 52

Since Vatican 2, the RC Church has undergone a whole lot of changes.
Since I am studying religion (though not Catholicism) in a big
Catholic College/Divinity School, we get to talk about this a lot.
This is a real ``liberal'' [as in wants to make lots of big, better,
and sweeping changes to Catholicism in an attempt to regain what is
believed to be lost] place, and every so often we get censored by the
Cardinal, or one of the Bishops for going off the deep end, but this
place keeps on chugging along...

From the point of view of the average worshipper, though, the change
has been quite overwhelming. Masses aren't in Latin any more. There is
no altar rail. You can eat meat on Friday. Other Christians aren't
really all damned. Communion can be received in the hand. Ecumanism
is highly talked about, and encouraged. Now people are talking about
``liberation theology'' and ``the roles of women in the Church''.
Really liberal places like here are talking about ``married priests''
and ``divorce in the Church'' and ``birth control'' and ``gays in the
church''. It goes on and on...

There has been a very fundamnetal  change in attitude. In the old days
people really walked around with models -- God is on top, and the
Pope talks to God, and the Cardinals talk to the Pope who talks to
God, and the Bishops talk to the Cardinals and the priests to the
Bishops and the people to the priests... The upshot was a belief that
salvation came, not from Jesus, but from *the Church*. In particular,
Salvation came from God, through the clergy, and only god released in
dribs and drabs to the people. This was lousy theology, but it was the
popular belief.

These days, Catholics get to talk about ``a personal relationship with
God'' (gee! they sound like those sinning Protestants!) which means
something very different than what it meant to ones grandparents.

Liberal places like here think that this is  more healthy and more
correct. The leaders around here are pushing for the ordination of
women and ecumanism and a host of other changes. Mostly, though, there
is a lot of criticism. The main one goes `` the people are already
freaked out by all the changes. Many are leaving the church because
it was not the stable rock upon which they had been lead to believe
that they could depend. The church changes, which makes it frightening
for many people. Even if it is more correct to ordain women, we should
not do it for X years since we will upset so many parishoners''.

There is a strong attitude here to call these conservatives ``old fogies''
and dismiss them. However, you keep hearing reports of people convinced
that the Vatican Council was the work of the devil to destroy the church and
that these are the last days....

Just for information....

Laura Creighton
utzoo!laura