Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/5/84; site uwmacc.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!allegra!bellcore!decvax!linus!philabs!cmcl2!seismo!uwvax!uwmacc!myers From: myers@uwmacc.UUCP (Jeff Myers) Newsgroups: net.politics,net.politics.theory Subject: Re: What is socialism? Message-ID: <708@uwmacc.UUCP> Date: Fri, 8-Feb-85 12:58:22 EST Article-I.D.: uwmacc.708 Posted: Fri Feb 8 12:58:22 1985 Date-Received: Tue, 12-Feb-85 04:41:11 EST References: <325@gargoyle.UChicago.UUCP> <21248@lanl.ARPA> Organization: UWisconsin-Madison Academic Comp Center Lines: 35 Xref: watmath net.politics:7522 net.politics.theory:68 > > Actually, Marx thought that socialism could not work without a totalitarian > form of government. I will look for the exact reference, but I returned > all the Marx writings I ever read to libraries long ago. > Hm. No doubt you're thinking of the *Critique of the Gotha Programme*, which is the text that makes the distinction between socialism and communism. For Marx and Engels, EVERY state (government, loosely) is an agent for the dominance of classes by a dominant class. In the transition from the capitalist state to the absence of a repressive state under communism, there would be a period of transition in which the state would need to act as an agent of the working class, as long as class antagonisms remained. Note that Marx felt that this state would be LESS (not more) dictatorial and MORE (not less) democratic than the state under capitalism, in the sense that people would have more control over their individual and collective lives, including more control over government policies. It is also important to point out that the absence of a "State" under communism does not mean that there are no planning nor distribution apparatuses, but that the government no longer plays the role of agent of class oppression. Lenin coined the term "Dictatorship of the Proletariat" in describing the state in post-capitalist revolutionary societies. This term has come to have bad connotations. -- Jeff Myers The views above may or may not University of Wisconsin-Madison reflect the views of any other Madison Academic Computing Center person or group at UW-Madison. ARPA: uwmacc!myers@wisc-rsch.arpa uucp: ..!{ucbvax,allegra,heurikon,ihnp4,seismo}!uwvax!uwmacc!myers