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From: tracy@hcrvx1.UUCP (Tracy Tims)
Newsgroups: net.abortion
Subject: Animals and people, which feels what.
Message-ID: <1115@hcrvx1.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 13-Feb-85 01:40:50 EST
Article-I.D.: hcrvx1.1115
Posted: Wed Feb 13 01:40:50 1985
Date-Received: Wed, 13-Feb-85 04:06:26 EST
Organization: Human Computing Resources Corp
Lines: 42

I don't like causing pain.  I don't like causing pain because I understand
what it feels like, and I would not wish that on anyone, operating on the
assumption that if we all don't wish it on anyone, there will be less pain.
There is a certain set of reactions that animals (us included) feel as pain.

I don't mind killing animals, as long as they are not in pain (or very much
pain at all).  I figure that an animal's consciousness is pretty much limited
to spatial models, with temporal models being instinctual (not explicitly
felt by the animal).  Thus, they don't have much of a concept of their own
death, or their own existence, other than that given them by the instinct to
survive.  So killing them, as long as they are not in pain, is not something
they would object to.  They don't understand it well.  (They don't feel it.)

Humans, on the other hand, are much better at perceiving time, and building
models involving time.  A human's understanding of pain also involves time.
We can understand and fear our own death: much of our activity is not based
in the here and now, in the immediate; but is based in the future, in the
culmination of plans and ideas.  A human's perception of pain is much richer
and intangible because of this.  (This comparison between animals and humans
is a relative matter, of course.)

I dislike the idea of killing humans because I can also understand a human
notion of pain.  I share the ability and desire to model using time, and to
invest a significant portion of my life to the conscious anticipation of
future events.  I count on my continued existence for happiness in the
here and now.  I directly understand that other people feel the same way.
I respect that.  Animals don't feel that way.

From what I can tell about pre-babies, they don't see time as a "human"
would.  They have no notions about it other than the here and now.  All
I know is that some time after birth, they develop a sense of time, and
an understanding of their future.  Birth is the latest point where we can
recognize that that sense is lacking.  So, I have no trouble with allowing
abortions of pre-babies.

Especially because I think it is more important for women to have control
over their own bodies than it is for us to not kill something that may
be a human being one day.  (I am not female.)

                              Tracy Tims    ihnp4!utzoo!hcr!hcrvx1!tracy
   Human Computing Resources Corporation         utcsri!hcr!hcrvx1!tracy
 Toronto, Ontario, Canada.  416 922-1937          dciem!hcr!hcrvx1!tracy