Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!cbosgd!ihnp4!mhuxn!mhuxb!mhuxr!ulysses!allegra!mit-eddie!godot!ima!ISM780B!jim From: jim@ISM780B.UUCP Newsgroups: net.lang.c Subject: Re: Re: Quality programming in c -- a ra Message-ID: <143@ISM780B.UUCP> Date: Thu, 7-Feb-85 00:50:42 EST Article-I.D.: ISM780B.143 Posted: Thu Feb 7 00:50:42 1985 Date-Received: Fri, 8-Feb-85 02:17:53 EST Lines: 25 Nf-ID: #R:ucsfcgl:-43500:ISM780B:25500107:000:1454 Nf-From: ISM780B!jim Feb 5 17:42:00 1985 > In other words, if those who write Unix utilities, surely the > top level of C hackers, routinely write bad code -- There is no evidence whatsoever for this; in fact, the evidence that these people are *not* top level C *programmers*, namely the poor quality of their code, is overwhelming. There are many very good C programmers around, but apparently very few of them are writing code at Bell Labs that is getting released. I sure wouldn't waste good programmers on that. I find programs like tbl or cc to be pure trash from the point of view of software engineering. I know the people wrote those are very bright, good conceptual people, but they have been part of the Bell culture for a long time, and I doubt that Bell has done much to challenge their habits or train them in software engineering techniques, or help them develop their *coding* skills. Of course, those programs and many of the other utilities were written a long time ago, and the people who wrote them may be much better now. In fact, I would expect people writing utilities to be junior and inexperienced; experienced programmers go on to do more sophisticated system design. It *is* encouraging that C++ could be developed at the labs, and I would hope it and its author and others with some concept of modern software engineering will have an effect on what comes out of there, although it will probably take a long time. -- Jim Balter, INTERACTIVE Systems (ima!jim)