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From: abeles@mhuxm.UUCP (abeles)
Newsgroups: net.religion.jewish
Subject: Re: "Jewish State" vs. "state for the Jews"
Message-ID: <312@mhuxm.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 12-Feb-85 14:27:27 EST
Article-I.D.: mhuxm.312
Posted: Tue Feb 12 14:27:27 1985
Date-Received: Wed, 13-Feb-85 03:33:39 EST
References: <861@eisx.UUCP> <4644@ucbvax.ARPA> <8@cvl.UUCP>
Organization: Bell Communications Research, Murray Hill, NJ
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> Assuming you're correct (and I don't believe that you are), I pose 
> the following QUESTION:
> 
>      If ISRAEL is only to be a "state for the Jews" and not a "Jewish 
> State" ( "Jewish State" meaning one that adheres to the Jewish religion )

A Jewish State is one where Jews govern themselves.  Judaism is not a religion,
it is an entire way of life.  Ergo, what Jews do is Jewish.

> what purpose does it serve? We already have a "state for the Jews" (where

We Jews haven't had a Jewish State for a long time.  I for one am happy that
we have one today.

> the standard of living is much higher than in Israel) ; it's called NEW YORK . 
>                                                Ari Gross
>                                                arig@cvl.arpa
> 
Orthodox have a long way to go before they can make any demands on other
Jews.  The Orthodox way endeavors to separate itself from other Jews as
much as possible (one might even suspect that many Orthodox hope that the
the other Jews will assimilate into oblivion so that they can be left
as the only Jews).  Orthodox for the most part have no desire to associate
formally with other Jews (with the possible exception of Lubavitch--but there
is talk that they won't allow ba'alei t'shuvah of marriageable age to mix
with "genuine" Lubavitch).  But on top of this they believe towards other
Jews similarly to their beliefs towards potential converts:  They should
be discouraged from attempting to become more religious Jews!

I feel safe in asserting that were it not the case that the majority of
Jews in Israel were not Orthodox, the Orthodox would have nothing to do
with the rest of the Jewish community.  It is only because they need the
passage of budgets and laws that they even talk to the rest of the Jewish
world.

Some elements are beginning to realize the folly of the Orthodox in this
respect and are, for example, encouraging the further involvement of
Orthodox congregations in Federation of Jewish Philanthropies fund-raising
activities.

--J. Abeles