Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site spar.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!bonnie!akgua!sdcsvax!dcdwest!ittvax!decvax!decwrl!spar!baba From: baba@spar.UUCP (Baba ROM DOS) Newsgroups: net.politics Subject: Re: Wage Rates: Unions, Minimum Wage Laws, and Employer Oligopoly Message-ID: <73@spar.UUCP> Date: Sat, 9-Feb-85 01:56:07 EST Article-I.D.: spar.73 Posted: Sat Feb 9 01:56:07 1985 Date-Received: Mon, 11-Feb-85 04:03:11 EST References: <811@ratex.UUCP> <63@spar.UUCP> <1103@amdahl.UUCP> Distribution: net Organization: Schlumberger Palo Alto Research, CA Lines: 55 > I have seen this "dark satanic mills" quote before, and rebutted it > before. > > The synopsis of the rebuttal is: > > Human beings have adapted thru various technological/economic > revolutions (you didn't even mention the Agricultural Revolution!). > All that Weiner has pointed out is that people will shift > into different jobs as certain jobs become obsolete or are best > handled by machines. This process has been going on since > (at least!) the Agricultural Revolution. > Let's look at it again: Of course, just as a skilled car- penter, the skilled mechanic, the skilled dressmaker have in some degree survived the first industrial revolution, so the skilled scientist and the skilled adminstrator may survive the second. However, given the second revolution as accomplished, the average human being of mediocre attainments or less has nothing to sell that is worth anyone's money to buy. The easiest jobs to automate are jobs that anyone can do. The new jobs that are created are jobs that require progressively more in the way of training and talent. The process has only begun. > (As it happens, the long-term future of the job market is in > *technological* and *entertainment* areas, due to growth of technology > and increased leisure time). Some former steel and auto workers have become medical technicians, DEC service engineers ;-), and soap opera stars, but for the most part these jobs go to younger people. We have begun to obsolete whole occupations in less than a generation. And we do not as a society approve of people being paid for leisure. > As for a system based on "human values", isn't that exactly what we > have -- a system based on what humans value? Or did you have some > philosophical goal in mind? > -- > Gordon A. Moffett ...!{ihnp4,hplabs,sun}!amdahl!gam Well, if you can remember back to the beginning of your posting, you were refuting a quotation, so it seems a little strange to ask what I had in mind. The author died in 1964. His name was Wiener, not Weiner. Again: The answer, of course, is to have a society based on human values OTHER THAN buying and selling. Please wake before pouncing, Baba