Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!laura From: laura@utzoo.UUCP (Laura Creighton) Newsgroups: net.religion.christian Subject: Re: discussions on Roman Catholicism Message-ID: <5053@utzoo.UUCP> Date: Sun, 10-Feb-85 13:26:24 EST Article-I.D.: utzoo.5053 Posted: Sun Feb 10 13:26:24 1985 Date-Received: Sun, 10-Feb-85 13:26:24 EST References: <1311@bbncca.ARPA>, <3598@mit-eddie.UUCP> Organization: U of Toronto Zoology Lines: 52 Since Vatican 2, the RC Church has undergone a whole lot of changes. Since I am studying religion (though not Catholicism) in a big Catholic College/Divinity School, we get to talk about this a lot. This is a real ``liberal'' [as in wants to make lots of big, better, and sweeping changes to Catholicism in an attempt to regain what is believed to be lost] place, and every so often we get censored by the Cardinal, or one of the Bishops for going off the deep end, but this place keeps on chugging along... From the point of view of the average worshipper, though, the change has been quite overwhelming. Masses aren't in Latin any more. There is no altar rail. You can eat meat on Friday. Other Christians aren't really all damned. Communion can be received in the hand. Ecumanism is highly talked about, and encouraged. Now people are talking about ``liberation theology'' and ``the roles of women in the Church''. Really liberal places like here are talking about ``married priests'' and ``divorce in the Church'' and ``birth control'' and ``gays in the church''. It goes on and on... There has been a very fundamnetal change in attitude. In the old days people really walked around with models -- God is on top, and the Pope talks to God, and the Cardinals talk to the Pope who talks to God, and the Bishops talk to the Cardinals and the priests to the Bishops and the people to the priests... The upshot was a belief that salvation came, not from Jesus, but from *the Church*. In particular, Salvation came from God, through the clergy, and only god released in dribs and drabs to the people. This was lousy theology, but it was the popular belief. These days, Catholics get to talk about ``a personal relationship with God'' (gee! they sound like those sinning Protestants!) which means something very different than what it meant to ones grandparents. Liberal places like here think that this is more healthy and more correct. The leaders around here are pushing for the ordination of women and ecumanism and a host of other changes. Mostly, though, there is a lot of criticism. The main one goes `` the people are already freaked out by all the changes. Many are leaving the church because it was not the stable rock upon which they had been lead to believe that they could depend. The church changes, which makes it frightening for many people. Even if it is more correct to ordain women, we should not do it for X years since we will upset so many parishoners''. There is a strong attitude here to call these conservatives ``old fogies'' and dismiss them. However, you keep hearing reports of people convinced that the Vatican Council was the work of the devil to destroy the church and that these are the last days.... Just for information.... Laura Creighton utzoo!laura