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From: martillo@mit-athena.ARPA (Joaquim Martillo)
Newsgroups: net.religion.jewish
Subject: Re: Who is a Jew
Message-ID: <225@mit-athena.ARPA>
Date: Thu, 2-Aug-84 07:15:56 EDT
Article-I.D.: mit-athe.225
Posted: Thu Aug  2 07:15:56 1984
Date-Received: Sat, 4-Aug-84 03:29:48 EDT
References: <1438@ittvax.UUCP>, <223@fisher.UUCP>
Organization: MIT, Project Athena, Cambridge, Ma.
Lines: 64


>Michael Schneider believes, just as American law determines who is an 
>American, and French law determines who is a Frenchman, Jewish law
>determines who is a Jew.

The terminology is incorrect.  French law does not determine  who  is  a
Frenchman  but  who is a citizen of France and who therefore has all the
rights and responsibilities of French citizenship.

>Which Jewish law? Orthodox, Conservative, and Reform Judaism are not
>uniform in their requirements. Thus, we have more than one proposed
>standard. With three laws, does that mean there are three distinct 
>Jewish peoples? Also, someone who believes all Jews are Israelis in
>exile can also suggest Israeli law as a fourth possibility.

Orthodox, Conservative and Reform Judaism are  all  basically  erroneous
Ashkenazi  developments  and  should  swiftly  pass  into oblivion.  Who
selects the law?  Who selected the French law or the  USA  law?   People
whose  primary political affiliation was the French nation or the United
States of America.  Likewise, people whose primary  affiliation  is  the
Jewish  nation  (I  do not say Israeli nation) select the law.  Therefor
about 95% of Ashkenazim have no right in selecting the law.

>Since he refers to "laws that can only be changed by G_d", it is safe
>to assume Michael refers to the Orthodox variety. Certainly, appeals to
>the divine origin of Mosaic Law is what sets it apart from the 
>Napoleonic Code. You can't have it both ways: you can claim divine
>commandment, or analogy with secular law, but claiming both is a little
>too much!

Analogy is the often the easiest way to explain to the ignorant.

>The statement that Jews of different nations have as much in common
>with each other as people of different regions of the same nations is
>hyperbole. An American Jew, for example, is very concerned with the
>fate and status of a Jew in, say, the Soviet Union, but still has more
>in common with his Gentile neighbor or even with a Baptist from West
>Texas.

This statement just proves my contention that Ashkenazim can  no  longer
be  genuinely  considered  Jewish.   USA  citizens use terms of national
affiliation in two distinct ways.  An Italian is  someone  with  Italian
citizenship  who takes part in the political and cultural life of Italy.
But an Italian is also an American whose  ethnic  roots  lie  in  Italy.
Only  the  former  has a right to take part in the national and cultural
life of Italy.  The latter may now and  then  have  Italian  citizenship
(just  like  Americans  of  Jewish background are sometimes accidentally
Jewish) but he would have to alter his primary affiliations  (lashub  --
to  return)  before  he  could  legitimately  claim  the right to affect
Italian national and political and cultural institutions.

Jews of different nations formed one national culture as little  as  two
hundred  and  fifty  years  ago.  For  example, there are cases of a Jew
starting out in Vilna  and  living  various  portions  of  his  life  in
Germany,  France,  Italy,  Algeria,  Yemen and India and apparently such
individuals never noticed major differences in  outlook.   The  talmudic
lifestyle  promotes unity.  In the 19th century Ashkenazim began to drop
out of the Jewish world.

The commandment ahabat Yisrael requires a Jew to  feel  more  in  common
with  a  Russian  Jew  or  and Israeli Jew than with a Baptist neighbor.
Since  David  Ruben  is  apparently  violating   this   most   important
commandment,  he  certainly has no right to input on the organization of
the Jewish people.