Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 (Tek) 9/26/83; site shark.UUCP
Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxl!houxm!houxz!vax135!cornell!uw-beaver!tektronix!orca!shark!hutch
From: hutch@shark.UUCP (Stephen Hutchison)
Newsgroups: net.flame
Subject: Re: Nationalism
Message-ID: <997@shark.UUCP>
Date: Sun, 26-Aug-84 01:47:07 EDT
Article-I.D.: shark.997
Posted: Sun Aug 26 01:47:07 1984
Date-Received: Wed, 22-Aug-84 00:59:13 EDT
References: <1062@eosp1.UUCP>
Organization: Tektronix, Wilsonville OR
Lines: 41

< did I forget also to mention Japan? >

I won't waste space quoting the entire history of this discussion.
(Discussion?  What's that doing in net.flame?)

Tony Robison suggests that there may have been a difference between
the "nationalism" exhibited in modern times and the "nationalism"
exhibited in the several ancient cultures I referred to.

Unless someone can come up with a member of those cultures, we have
to rely upon the evidence we've got.  That evidence is presented in
those writings and stories which have survived to the present.
Unfortunately, very few of us in the net are particularly expert in
the area of ancient historical documents referring to pride/chauvinism
of nation.  The argument becomes somewhat meaningless, and can only
be described, not resolved to any great satisfaction.

I assert that there was a common sentiment in many cultures going as
far back as Ur of the Chaldees, a feeling that one's own nation (however
large or small it might be) was a pinnacle, a thing inherently superior
to all others.

There are a number of people who would differentiate between this
notion where it applies to smaller entities, such as a city-state,
as opposed to a huge political entity like the USA.

I suspect that a lot of this assertion is based on appearances.
We are immersed in our own culture, seeing constantly the appeals to
"patriotism, Mother Pie and Applehood".  We don't see such appeals
as they were presented to the Romans or the Israelites because we
aren't there at that time.

Whether the exact emotion being appealed to is the same is a silly
question.  In common experience, it is impossible to isolate a pure
emotion and examine it.  We can only classify sentiment by its
similarity to other expressed sentiment, and to the feelings that
are evoked in us by that expression.

This is getting too deep for net.flame.

Hutch