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From: gds@homxa.UUCP (Greg Skinner)
Newsgroups: net.singles
Subject: Re: Rambling (in two senses) -- longish
Message-ID: <315@homxa.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 2-Aug-84 13:53:16 EDT
Article-I.D.: homxa.315
Posted: Thu Aug  2 13:53:16 1984
Date-Received: Sat, 4-Aug-84 00:06:33 EDT
References: <872@pucc-h>
Organization: AT&T Bell Labs, Holmdel NJ
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From: aeq@pucc-h (Jeff Sargent)
> Sunday afternoon after church, I went out for a drive in the country, since I
> wanted to think/pray and didn't feel like going home yet.  The drive turned
> into a ROAD TRIP; not only was I very happy to be getting away from Lafayette,
> but I conceived the idea of visiting an old friend whom I had not seen or
> communicated with in over a year.  

Sounds like a pretty good idea to me.  Maybe I should take a road trip and 
visit an old friend of mine.

> That's the kicker:  I have this overwhelming desire to have people really WANT
> me in their lives, and have the courage to be vulnerable enough to tell me
> that.  You will say:  "Why don't you gather your own courage and tell some
> people that?"  I have, in some cases.  The kicker is that I'm not sure how to
> go about actively developing more of such friendships. It is discouraging to
> try to become friends with someone who does not have a dearth of friendships:
> for me, having a new friend is a wonderful experience, and I quickly want to
> see again anyone who has befriended me; but to that person, I'm just another
> friend, and not yet a particularly close one, so if he/she doesn't see me for
> a while, it's no big deal, so he/she doesn't call me.  Thus I, with less
> experience and consequently more clumsiness, am forced to take the initiative
> in forming and nurturing friendships.  (The sad thing is that the same result
> obtains, though for different reasons, if I want to befriend someone who is
> similarly shy or diffident.)  The wonder is that I have any friends at all.
> Unfortunately, I'm not sure how I came to be close friends with some people
> whom I've known for a while; true, we got to know each other by being involved
> in activities together, but how on earth did we become close friends?  I don't
> remember making any effort to; the friendships just sort of happened.  Is that
> the way it's supposed to work?  What about making friends with someone whose
> path doesn't cross mine except by arrangement?  That lands me right back in
> the bind mentioned above.

I recall when I first started college, long before the days of gregbo.  It's
easiest to make friends when a whole bunch of people are in a new situation
(for example, the first day of classes) when no one knows anybody else and
everybody is looking for someone to do something with.  MIT is good in that
respect ... for the first week, there are no classes, lots of parties, trips,
opportunities to visit fraternities, and generally opportunities to meet the
people you will be spending the next four years of your life with.  In the
freshman year, you take most of your classes with every other freshman at
MIT, so you see the same people all the time.  So, in general, in a situation
where everyone is new, you have the greatest likelihood of making friends.

On the other hand, when YOU are new and everyone else knows everyone, it's 
harder.  You're on the outside trying to get in.  Everybody else has a 
more-or-less defined pattern of interaction with each other, and somehow
you have to break into that routine.  The best way to do that, I guess, is
to find people with whom you have things in common with.  In your case, Jeff,
sounds like theater is a possibility, there's also groups at church you can
join.  (I hope the church I found has a men's choir, or at least a choir
of young adults.)  It's rough.  

As far as generally forming friendships go, it's (I guess) by experiment.  One
of my best friends at school I met through having an argument, of all things!
I had heard of him, and when I met him in the flesh, I argued with him about
his attitude.  Well, I thought I'd never talk to him again until I needed
some help with a physics problem set (eeeeuuuugh, mechanics) and I went to
his dorm room and asked for his help.  Well, we started talking, and out of
our conversation we discovered we had a lot in common -- we were both going to
be CS majors, liked the same kind of music, etc.  I guess in general what I'm
trying to say is that there's no 'formula' for friendship -- as you meet 
people you generally find out if they like you or not, and from there the
degree of friendship is determined by the continued interactions of the two of
you, common interests, etc.
 
> A minister who had had his own
> past troubles with women told me that he had gradually come to a state of
> despair about ever finding an SO at all, and that when he finally reached that
> state, gave up and quit trying, only then did his longtime friendship with one
> particular young woman begin growing into the love that eventually led them to
> marry.  I wish he hadn't told me that, because every time I start feeling
> really despairing and discouraged about ever having an SO, I think "Aha!  I'm
> in despair; therefore an SO is just around the corner" -- and so I've never
> really entirely given up and just let the relationships happen where they may.

As a friend of mine once told me, don't try to live your life as my life.  If
your minister happened to catch his wife that way, it won't necessarily work 
that way for you.   I was jealous of my friend because he had an SO and I
didn't, and that's when he told me what he told me. 

> It's hard to know what to do and what to feel.  It's hard to know what to do
> when most of the people who either participate in the activities I enjoy (e.g.
> theatre) or work in the same field as I are not the sort I would be really
> It is hard to find people of my sort:  Christian, but not Goody Twoshoes --
> i.e. genuinely committed to Christ, but not keeping up the pretense that this
> comfortable with as friends.  (In fact, one of the other PUCC programmers,
> Rsk the Wombat, judging by his articles at least, is almost my sworn enemy.)
> commitment instantly frees one from all sins and problems (or, even more
> galling, actually believing that it does).  Now of course, if I would follow
> Christ's example, I would befriend all sorts of people; but I still have a
> tough time befriending people similar to me, let alone vastly different.

This is a difficult thing to answer.  I've felt the same way sometimes (except
I didn't feel like non-Christians were my enemies).  The way I handle this
(usually) is to avoid discussing religion-related things with people who just
aren't interested.  You can still be friends, in fact, out of my best friends
just two of them are Christians.  One of the non-Christians is more into Eastern
religions and we have had endless debate in the past about lots of things
besides religion that we disagree on (like the role of the U.S. as a world
power, U.S. intervention in foreign politics, etc.).  Also, this same friend
has many disagreements with another friend who is a confirmed capitalist (I
mean, like he wants to make millions of dollars).  Part of friendship is the
differences between the people that bring them together -- you can learn a
lot from people who are different from you.  Before I met the guy interested
in Eastern religions and against capitalism, I wanted to make millions of
dollars also and didn't care particularly who I was oppressing to make my mo-
ney, and now I realize that perhaps making millions of dollars at the expense
of others is perhaps not the right thing to do.  Consequently, he has learned
a great deal from me by my showing of my faith to him -- he found that through
all sorts of logical arguments he couldn't unshake my faith, so he has come
to a partial conclusion that there might be something to it, after all.

Generally speaking, try to make the best of the people you meet.  Friendships
can crop up in strange places.  I may not agree with everything my friends do
or say (as they most likely do not agree with everything I say) however I
wouldn't trade my friends for anything.  (Unfortunately for me, they're all
in Boston now, and I'm not :-( )  Anybody got a cure for homesickness?

One more thing Jeff:  I would be EXTREMELY CAREFUL about what you say about
other people, especially in public forums like this.  We have seen enough
blanket statements in this newsgroup -- I would hope that you wouldn't make
them also.  Statements like

> (In fact, one of the other PUCC programmers,
> Rsk the Wombat, judging by his articles at least, is almost my sworn enemy.)

will almost definitely invoke resentment among others.  Have you ever met rsk?
If not, then you shouldn't be saying things like that about him.  It's not
a Christian thing to do, and definitely not a nice thing to do.

I'm still waaaaaaaay behind, so I assume everyone else has commented on this,
but I just couldn't resist.
-- 
Those who know me have no need for my name.

Greg Skinner (gregbo)
{allegra,cbosgd,ihnp4}!hou2e!gregbo