Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!mgnetp!ihnp4!zehntel!dual!amd!decwrl!decvax!mcnc!ecsvax!dgary
From: dgary@ecsvax.UUCP
Newsgroups: net.philosophy
Subject: Re: Free [Will, Lunch, Software] - (nf)
Message-ID: <3049@ecsvax.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 2-Aug-84 12:20:05 EDT
Article-I.D.: ecsvax.3049
Posted: Thu Aug  2 12:20:05 1984
Date-Received: Sun, 5-Aug-84 05:18:01 EDT
References: ism780b.42
Lines: 45

< ... quoting   >
>From: jim@ism780b.UUCP Wed Aug  1 00:19:24 1984
>You seem to be assuming that "cause and effect" is an independent something
>that either does exist or does not, in the same way that black holes either
>do exist or not.

A great many philosophers, including David Hume (could outconsume...)
have argued that cause and effect are  mere illusions, in the sense
that my clock radio coming on immediately before sunrise mighht be
thought to "cause" the rising of the sun.   Being rather pragmatic
and utilitarian in my outlook (terms not intended in their strictly
philosophical sense), I consider this point of view impractical but
it certainly can't be dismissed out of hand.

>... Now, it turns out that
>in the real physical world, you don't even need to worry about Zeno's
>paradox, because time is quantized, and so B happens in the next time
>packet following A, and there are no packets in between.

I don't disagree with the point being made, but I'd like to note that
quantization of spacetime is far from being an established fact (as
particle quantization is).

>... Note that free will aand determinism *are
>not* mutually exclusive.  If even I myself cannot predict my decisions, then I
>have free will regardless of how tightly coupled my brain state and my actions
>are.
>-- Jim Balter, INTERACTIVE Systems (ima!jim)

This may be true with regard to your definition of the terms, but in
normal usage they are taken to be mutually exclusive.  Actually, physics
would now lead one to reject strict determinism.  The question is
whether quantum-level randomness offers enough of a loophole in
determinism to allow free will to get a toehold.  Bertrand Russell
argued that quantum effects are irrlevant in the normal world of our
experience, but I suspect our neurons may "leverage up" quantum
randomness to the level we can experience.  It is certainly true
that things like radioactively induced glitches in computer circuits
are (in current physics anyway) nondterministic, and we know what THEY
can lead to...

D Gary Grady
Duke University Computation Center, Durham, NC  27706
(919) 684-4146
USENET:  {decvax,ihnp4,akgua,etc.}!mcnc!ecsvax!dgary