Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site gatech.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!decvax!harpo!whuxle!akgua!gatech!owens From: owens@gatech.UUCP (Gerald R. Owens) Newsgroups: net.abortion Subject: Re: Another look (venn diagrams) Message-ID: <9470@gatech.UUCP> Date: Sat, 4-Aug-84 12:08:46 EDT Article-I.D.: gatech.9470 Posted: Sat Aug 4 12:08:46 1984 Date-Received: Mon, 6-Aug-84 03:24:06 EDT References: <494@rayssd.UUCP> Organization: Georgia Tech School of ICS, Atlanta Lines: 47 Thank you for the venn diagram, melissa. It pointed out a distinction that I want to make. The problem with the fetus is that it is put into the set of "living things legal to kill" now, but if given enough time, suddenly hops (with a maddening volition of it's own, it seems :-) into the set of humans (or "living things not legal to kill"). It is the only entity that, at different times of it's life, has occupied both sets. Ok. WHEN does it make the transition? (oh no! here's the old "where do you draw the line" argument. It's fair to ask here, however, for the definition of the sets requires that the question be asked). If it does not make the transition, then it behaves like the magic problem that is being sought to prove that P=NP, for feti become babies, who become adolescents, who become adults, who contribute articles to this newsgroup. If it NEVER transitions out of the "legal to kill" group, then "legal to kill"="not legal to kill", which is EXACTLY what we pro-life people have been worried about. Two solutions exist: 1. The fetus was never in the "legal to kill" group at all. However, this brings up the question of how two entities, in the "legal to kill" group could combine to create an entity that hops the group boundaries into the "not legal to kill" group. A good question that I haven't gotten a decent answer for yet. 2. The fetus IS in the "legal to kill" group, but gains properties that shifts it into the "not legal to kill" group. Quite plausible, since the argument for the death penalty is that the beings being executed have committed certain acts that shifted them out of the "legal to kill" group. Could also be an answer to the question raised in solution #1. However, we pro-life people would like to have those properties enumerated and put into law, otherwise some nut with a toothbrush moustache might start shifting a lot of members from the "not legal to kill" group into the "legal to kill" group for some asinine reasons. Some might argue that preservation of health, life, property, reputation, convenience of SOMEBODY ELSE is sufficient reason to kill the fetus. (Why the same reasons do not apply to criminals rubbing out the witnesses against them is a bit unclear to me, however). Jeepers. That Venn diagram REALLY cleared things up for me! Thanks again, melissa. Gerald Owens Owens@Gatech