Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 (Tek) 9/26/83; site shark.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxl!houxm!houxz!vax135!cornell!uw-beaver!tektronix!orca!shark!hutch From: hutch@shark.UUCP (Stephen Hutchison) Newsgroups: net.flame Subject: Re: Nationalism Message-ID: <997@shark.UUCP> Date: Sun, 26-Aug-84 01:47:07 EDT Article-I.D.: shark.997 Posted: Sun Aug 26 01:47:07 1984 Date-Received: Wed, 22-Aug-84 00:59:13 EDT References: <1062@eosp1.UUCP> Organization: Tektronix, Wilsonville OR Lines: 41 < did I forget also to mention Japan? > I won't waste space quoting the entire history of this discussion. (Discussion? What's that doing in net.flame?) Tony Robison suggests that there may have been a difference between the "nationalism" exhibited in modern times and the "nationalism" exhibited in the several ancient cultures I referred to. Unless someone can come up with a member of those cultures, we have to rely upon the evidence we've got. That evidence is presented in those writings and stories which have survived to the present. Unfortunately, very few of us in the net are particularly expert in the area of ancient historical documents referring to pride/chauvinism of nation. The argument becomes somewhat meaningless, and can only be described, not resolved to any great satisfaction. I assert that there was a common sentiment in many cultures going as far back as Ur of the Chaldees, a feeling that one's own nation (however large or small it might be) was a pinnacle, a thing inherently superior to all others. There are a number of people who would differentiate between this notion where it applies to smaller entities, such as a city-state, as opposed to a huge political entity like the USA. I suspect that a lot of this assertion is based on appearances. We are immersed in our own culture, seeing constantly the appeals to "patriotism, Mother Pie and Applehood". We don't see such appeals as they were presented to the Romans or the Israelites because we aren't there at that time. Whether the exact emotion being appealed to is the same is a silly question. In common experience, it is impossible to isolate a pure emotion and examine it. We can only classify sentiment by its similarity to other expressed sentiment, and to the feelings that are evoked in us by that expression. This is getting too deep for net.flame. Hutch