Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site allegra.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!allegra!alan From: alan@allegra.UUCP (Alan S. Driscoll) Newsgroups: net.singles,net.women Subject: Re: what the big deal is Message-ID: <2649@allegra.UUCP> Date: Sat, 28-Jul-84 09:47:29 EDT Article-I.D.: allegra.2649 Posted: Sat Jul 28 09:47:29 1984 Date-Received: Sun, 29-Jul-84 00:46:12 EDT References: <7851@umcp-cs.UUCP> <131@wjvax.UUCP>, <912@pyuxn.UUCP> <2642@allegra.UUCP>, <931@pyuxn.UUCP> Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill Lines: 45 >> So, from both perspectives, women are essentially free. How they use >> that freedom is their own responsibility. I prefer to save words like >> "oppressor" and "victim" for situations in which there is a true lack >> of freedom, imposed from the outside. Where the individual is free to >> accept or reject a norm, "ignorance" would be a more appropriate term. > By those definitions, everybody is free. Even people in Communist or other > totalitarian countries, people in prison. Able to create their own > environment and associate with whomever they choose. I discussed both political freedom and emotional freedom. I discussed them separately, because I think it's a great mistake to confuse them. Despite my efforts, you insist on doing just that. Once again, let's take them *one* at a time. Women, *as a group*, are politically free in this country, since they comprise a voting majority in a democracy. Women, *as individuals*, are emotionally free, since they (like everyone else) are responsible for their relationships. As for people in totalitarian countries or prisoners, again, I'll deal with the two forms of freedom separately. Politically, they obviously aren't free. (My argument about women is irrelevant, since they're not in a democratic situation.) Emotionally, they are free, simply because *everyone* is. You hear people denying responsibility for their relationships all the time. (Our culture teachs men and women to wait for the right person, rather than becoming the right person.) A little while ago, there was a discussion about the "lack of single, intelligent women." What bull! If these guys were stranded on an island, then I'd agree they had lost their emotional freedom. If they were stranded, though, they had access to the net, so why not pop off an article to net.rescue.me? :-) In future discussions, Rich, please be careful to avoid this confusion. Women certainly haven't achieved political equality in this country, but it is dishonest to carry that over into *personal* relationships. I can blame my political situation on someone else. Blaming relationships on someone else (or giving credit) is just a display of ignorance. In the *personal* realm, we are responsible for ourselves. Period. -- Alan S. Driscoll AT&T Bell Laboratories