Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1.chuqui 4/7/84; site nsc.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxl!ihnp4!nsc!chuqui From: chuqui@nsc.UUCP (Chuq) Newsgroups: net.singles Subject: Re: disgusting! Message-ID: <1285@nsc.UUCP> Date: Fri, 10-Aug-84 02:04:56 EDT Article-I.D.: nsc.1285 Posted: Fri Aug 10 02:04:56 1984 Date-Received: Sat, 4-Aug-84 23:49:40 EDT References: <46@ism780b.UUCP> Organization: Bryn Myrrdin Lines: 79 >> Perhaps one reason I react differently is because I've talked to Ms. >> Millines privately and I see more of her personality that most of the >> others. >Have you done the same for everyone else, including Alan? I try. I won't even pretend that I succeed all of the time. Contrary to popular opinion, I AM human, and I DO screw up occasionally. Correction. I screw up a lot. in the case of Alan, I HAVE talked to him on occasion, I think he is a nice person, he knows how to talk, to think, and is under most circumstances a reasonable person. I also happen to disagree with him on this subject. I've been known to disagree with people I like quite a lot, as a matter of fact (right, rich?). When people disagree with me, I try to not take it personally, and I'd hope that other people would do the same. I am my own person, and I have my own opinions, and sometimes, no, most of the time, I can't always justify them with logic. I don't always like to try, as a matter of fact. When I disagree with someone on an emotional or intuitive level AND they take that disagreement personally (both seem to be the situation here with Alan) it creates problems because when they ask my WHY I feel the way I am, all I can really say is that it is the way I feel. They then take this personally and we have hurt feelings. Look, This whole thing has been blown totally out of proportion. I've been trying to drop the subject for a couple of weeks now, and it keeps popping up again. Let me attempt to state my position succinctly, and finally: I like Trish. I like Alan. I agreed with Trish's position because I've seen a number of situations that prove it out. I disagreed with Alan's position. I'm not going to change my mind. Alan shouldn't be offended, because next time I might agree with him and disagree with someone else. This is because I am me, and I am not Alan, and therefore I don't always think like Alan. now, can we PLEASE drop the subject? >> Rather than looking at her hostility and her 'attitude' as defined >> by TWO messages (a GREAT way to define a person. Let's take two random >> messages by anyone (myself included) and do a psychological study of them. >> How accurate would it be?) I took the time to writeto her and we talked a >> little bit. She happens to be a VERY interesting person when you attempt to >> relate to her as a human and not as a 'bigoted feminist lesbian' or >> whatever label they're placing on her this week. >I have never had any doubt that she is an interesting human being. >Do you think Alan ever had any doubt? I have never labeled her as bfl or >anything else, nor has Alan. He has repeatedly repeatedly repeatedly stated >that he was not talking about her personal traits but rather was responding to >her statement. These are all strawmen, which you are using to reinforce your >blindness. I refuse not to look at her hostility, *despite* the fact that she >is an interesting human being. I am critical of the policies and attitudes of >various politicians, police, certain parties, people with religious and racial >prejudices, etc. *despite* the fact that they are all human beings like you >and me and most of them love and are loved by their families and friends. You >are the bigot if you think that all people worthy of criticism are *not* very >interesting when related to as human beings. That includes Alan and anyone >else you choose to criticize, and it also includes Trish. Now tell me you >don't have a double standard. I think you are twisting my words and meanings around to fit your uses. I'm not going to get into it. If you believe this, fine. If you think I'm bigoted, fine. I don't think I'm bigoted and I don't think most people on the net would consider me bigoted. Feel free to think what you want. >One year from now I will anonymously post a similar >message about women. Can you honestly say you will react the same way you did >to Trish? If you don't, and I point it out, will you reevaluate yourself? >Will you grow? I hope so, and I think so. But then, I was expecting it this >time. I don't know WHAT I would say a year from now, because I'm constantly reevaluating myself. I don't know who I'll be a year from now, or a month from now, or a day from now. All I CAN say is that I would evaluate the message like I do any other, and see whether or not I agree with it or disagree with it. Or simply not care. -- From the depths of the Crystal Cavern: Chuq Von Rospach {amd,decwrl,fortune,hplabs,ihnp4}!nsc!chuqui nsc!chuqui@decwrl.ARPA Dreams, dreams, enchanter! Gone with the harp's echo when the strings fall mute; with the flame's shadow when the fire dies. Be still, and listen.