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From: spaf@gatech.UUCP (Gene Spafford)
Newsgroups: net.singles
Subject: Re: some idle questions about relationships...
Message-ID: <9612@gatech.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 14-Aug-84 12:28:01 EDT
Article-I.D.: gatech.9612
Posted: Tue Aug 14 12:28:01 1984
Date-Received: Fri, 17-Aug-84 01:09:53 EDT
References: <2154@sdccsu3.UUCP>
Organization: The Clouds Project, School of ICS, Georgia Tech
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>From: taylor@sdccsu3.UUCP

>	Hi there!  (just thought I'd start out cheery)

That's one of the best ways to start out.


>1) Do relationships have to be mutually beneficial to be 'good'?  (I use this
>   word for lack of a better one.  Please answer beyond the superficial
>   stupidity of using such a loaded word!)

Hard to answer this without a definition of "good."  However, I can state
that I've always learned from realtionships, even the painful ones.  I've 
never been involved with anyone in a "destructive" relationship, although
I have been in ones where one person gained a lot more than the other.
We learn, we live, we advance -- is there any implicit "good" in that?
And can anything truely "bad" ever occur from love?  (excluding ducks,
of course)

>2) Has anyone ever correlated behavioural changes with the imminent
>   breakup of a relationship?  (Other than, say, intense loathing and
>   physical nausea in the others presence) (;-))

Well, I happen to like the following quote:
	The onset and the waning of love make themselves
	felt in the uneasiness experienced at being alone together.
			--Jean de la Bruyere (1645-1696, France)
It certainly seems to be the case.  It is more and more difficult to
find the time to spend together.  Conversation becomes trivial and
hard to sustain (unless you're into argumentation).  Attempts are made
to relive past, happier times.  You start spending evenings and weekends
with other people....

>3) I know of a friend who 'broke up' a relationship by changing the way
>   that each person thought of the other, so that (s)he could get together
>   and form a relationship with one of the partners...I find it hard to
>   condemn this, as the maxim 'nothing that wouldn't occur will' (??) is
>   true: if their relationship (the original) was strong and 'good' (augh,
>   that word again!) they wouldn't have broken up.  Just the same, I wonder
>   about it.  

Well, speaking as someone who had this happen to him about 18 months
ago, let me say that I think even the strongest relationships can
undergo stress, especially if the participants are themselves
stressed.  If such stress occurs, if one of the parties involved
doesn't have the strength or maturity or resolve necessary to hold on,
then it is possible for someone on the outside to influence things a
lot.

In my situation, everyone lost.  I acted like a fool for a while (more
so than usual, that is) and got really caught up in the self-pity trip
for a month of two.  The fellow who ended up with the young woman
involved (for a while, at least) lost a fair amount of respect by some
of those who knew him, plus whatever emotional energy he put into the
whole thing.  Of course, the young woman involved lost the most --
besides alienating a number of acquaintances, she lost me.  I doubt she
ever did or ever will realize that cost.

In most of the cases I've seen, one of the persons involved was already
uncomfortable with the realtionship and just looking for a good excuse.
Usually the person in the middle gets used as an excuse, and often
dumped by the wayside before too long.  Think about what they've
gained -- a bit of reputation amongst their peers, the ill-will of at
least one very hurt person, and the (probably temporary) affection of
someone shown to be capable of betrayal (too strong a word).

I think, in retrospect, I was lucky.  I learned, and I didn't get
stuck with someone who didn't treat me with respect and who
didn't appreciate me.  So, getting back to your first question, I
think it is possible for "good" to come of a relationship of
dubious quality.

But then again, what do I know?

-- 
Off the Wall of Gene Spafford
The Clouds Project, School of ICS, Georgia Tech, Atlanta GA 30332
Phone:	(404) 894-6169, (404) 894-6170 [messages]
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