Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxl!ihnp4!zehntel!dual!amd!decwrl!decvax!cca!ima!ism780!martin From: martin@ism780.UUCP Newsgroups: net.philosophy Subject: Re: Free [Will, Lunch, Software] Message-ID: <344@ism780.UUCP> Date: Sat, 4-Aug-84 00:08:51 EDT Article-I.D.: ism780.344 Posted: Sat Aug 4 00:08:51 1984 Date-Received: Mon, 30-Jul-84 01:13:39 EDT Lines: 41 Nf-ID: #R:houca:-44800:ism780:20200015:000:1821 Nf-From: ism780!martin Jul 27 13:29:00 1984 We always seem to describe time as being anchored in the past and proceeding forward, through the present, into the future. We draw a picture of time like the one below. Drawing it this way leads to the belief that events in the past cause the state that is the present. Past Present --------------------------------------------> But think of time this way. Each event now in our past was once in the present. It was in the present before it was in the past. So the picture should really be drawn this way. Past Present <-------------------------------------------- Looking at time this way leads me to believe that I might be effecting the past rather than the other way around (free will vs determinism?). But what about the principle of cause and effect? It comes from thinking of time as in the first picture. If you think of time proceeding from present to past, then what we used to call an effect precedes its cause. I think the principle of cause and effect is nothing more than identity. That is, if A causes B, then A and B are the same. Without the principle of cause and effect there is no determinism. In the picture below, I am standing on the X, forever in the present being bombarded with possible futures. I choose which future will become my past. Past Present Futures <------------ <--------------------------------------------X <------------ <------------ "And that's where free will comes from, Charlie Brown." Having so said, Linus threw his blanky over his shoulder, planted his thumb firmly in his mouth, and prepared to withstand the hurricane he knew was coming. martin smith INTERACTIVE Systems