Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: $Revision: 1.6.2.14 $; site uiucdcs.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!decvax!decwrl!amd!dual!zehntel!ihnp4!inuxc!pur-ee!uiucdcs!liberte From: liberte@uiucdcs.UUCP Newsgroups: net.abortion Subject: Re: Re: Random Definition Message-ID: <44700028@uiucdcs.UUCP> Date: Fri, 17-Aug-84 04:07:00 EDT Article-I.D.: uiucdcs.44700028 Posted: Fri Aug 17 04:07:00 1984 Date-Received: Sun, 19-Aug-84 14:01:29 EDT References: <3424@cbscc.UUCP> Lines: 67 Nf-ID: #R:cbscc:-342400:uiucdcs:44700028:000:2834 Nf-From: uiucdcs!liberte Aug 17 03:07:00 1984 Nf-ID: #R:cbscc:-342400:uiucdcs:44700028:000:2834 Nf-From: uiucdcs!liberte Aug 17 03:07:00 1984 /**** uiucdcs:net.abortion / pmd@cbscc / 7:19 pm Aug 13, 1984 ****/ ... There are other Bible citations that clearly indicate the spiritual vivacity of the human fetus: Now the word of the LORD came to me saying, "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations." (Jeremiah 1.4-5) "For he [John the Baptist] will be great in the sight of the Lord, and he will drink no wine or liquor; and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit, while yet in his mother's womb". (Luke 1.15) I think it's fair to say that God does not commission a prophet or fill him with the Holy Spirit if he has no soul and is no different than an animal. But perhaps the most profound expression of God's acknowledgement of the fetus is his entrance into history as one (Luke 1.30-37). ********************************************************** Me: You are correct that these references, as stated, tend to indicate that the fetus has a soul. But I would be very careful and examine the original wording before deciding. Another interpretation of these and other references in the Bible is that the soul of a human exists even before the conception of its body. Perhaps the fetus has a soul waiting around to incarnate into the body - at the first breath. This is consistent with the notion of reincarnation. There seems to be strong evidence for reincarnation in Christ's statement that John the Baptist IS Elija. I will write more on reincarnation someday in net.religion. ************************************************************ ... Yet when the Bible seems to serve their purpose there is no objection to appealing to it. If you don't consider the Bible to be authoritative on the issue of abortion, don't call it a major point when it seems to support your views. ... Paul Dubuc {cbosgd,ihnp4}!cbscc!pmd /* ---------- */ I called it a major point. I do consider the Bible to be authoritative on this and other issues, though careful interpretation is the crux. I suggested that the soul connects with the body at first breath a couple months ago without any reference to the Bible. I got no response except from one who thought I shouldnt even bring up the soul. Since we cannot tell what the truth of the matter is until we can measure or perceive this "soul" in some way, the whole question is somewhat irrelevant. However, if Biblical references may be interpreted differently from how pro-lifers have interpreted them so far, the issue becomes very relevant for them, though not for pro-choicers. Daniel LaLiberte (ihnp4!uiucdcs!liberte) U of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign, Computer Science {all absolutes are false -- including this one} Please comment on my net.religion article, "He Walked the Americas".