Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site fisher.UUCP
Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!allegra!princeton!astrovax!fisher!david
From: david@fisher.UUCP (David Rubin)
Newsgroups: net.religion.jewish
Subject: Re: Who is a Jew
Message-ID: <267@fisher.UUCP>
Date: Mon, 13-Aug-84 08:47:54 EDT
Article-I.D.: fisher.267
Posted: Mon Aug 13 08:47:54 1984
Date-Received: Tue, 14-Aug-84 01:31:40 EDT
References: <1438@ittvax.UUCP>, <223@fisher.UUCP> <225@mit-athena.ARPA>, <253@fisher.UUCP> <240@mit-athena.ARPA>
Organization: Princeton Univ. Statistics
Lines: 50

>Read the damn article!  You specifically state:

>>An American Jew, for example, is very concerned with the fate and status
>>of a Jew in, say, the Soviet Union, but still has more  in  common  with
>>his Gentile neighbor or even with a Baptist from West Texas.

>By definition you are not 'oheb Yisrael if you believe this.  Talk about
>arrogance.  Its pure hutspah to suggest that either a 'adish Yisrael  or
>sone'  Yisrael  has  a  right  to  input  about  the organization of the
>community even if he does happen to be accidentally Jewish  (I  did  not
>invent  the  concept;  I believe Cynthia Ozick did but she used the term
>non-Jewish Jews).

Whether it is desirable to consider me Jewish is a subject of
legitimate discussion and I did not object to you expressing such an
opinion (though I strongly disagree); however, if you are going to
discuss MY Jewishness (or lack thereof), it is unjust to also try and
exclude me from that discussion!

Also, if you read what I did say, you will find no suggestion that
Jewish interests be sacrificed for Gentile interests. What I did say
was that American Jews held more in common (language, enviroment,
politics, etc.) with other Americans than with Jews in other
countries. That does not mean American Jews ought to take the part of
Americans against other Jews. If there is a conflict, we ought to take
the part of whoever is right.

Finally, if you wish to impose strict tests of Jewishness, be aware you
run the danger of turning Judaism into a Phi Beta Kappa of sorts: an
orginization whose primary concern is to decide who deserves the honor
of membership. 

>This touches one of my main gripes against Ashkenazim.  For  almost  all
>Sefardim  when  they hear or read about the sufferings of Ashkenazim, it
>is like it happened to their own families.  When we tell the  Ashkenazim
>about  our  sufferings,  for most Ashkenazim we could have been Martians
>for all they seem to care.

This touches one of my gripes against Martillo. Ashenazim are the
whipping boys for all that is wrong in the Jewish world.  Which
reminds me of a question Martillo did not answer. So I will repeat it,
and I would really be interested in a cogent answer:

Martillo, why do you participate in this group? If it is to learn
something from others on the net, why the authoritarian tone? If it
is to teach us something, why the insult and abuse (you can't believe
people are ever persuaded by verbal violence)?

					David Rubin
			{allegra|astrovax|princeton}!fisher!david