Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site fisher.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!allegra!princeton!astrovax!fisher!david From: david@fisher.UUCP (David Rubin) Newsgroups: net.religion.jewish Subject: Re: Who is a Jew Message-ID: <267@fisher.UUCP> Date: Mon, 13-Aug-84 08:47:54 EDT Article-I.D.: fisher.267 Posted: Mon Aug 13 08:47:54 1984 Date-Received: Tue, 14-Aug-84 01:31:40 EDT References: <1438@ittvax.UUCP>, <223@fisher.UUCP> <225@mit-athena.ARPA>, <253@fisher.UUCP> <240@mit-athena.ARPA> Organization: Princeton Univ. Statistics Lines: 50 >Read the damn article! You specifically state: >>An American Jew, for example, is very concerned with the fate and status >>of a Jew in, say, the Soviet Union, but still has more in common with >>his Gentile neighbor or even with a Baptist from West Texas. >By definition you are not 'oheb Yisrael if you believe this. Talk about >arrogance. Its pure hutspah to suggest that either a 'adish Yisrael or >sone' Yisrael has a right to input about the organization of the >community even if he does happen to be accidentally Jewish (I did not >invent the concept; I believe Cynthia Ozick did but she used the term >non-Jewish Jews). Whether it is desirable to consider me Jewish is a subject of legitimate discussion and I did not object to you expressing such an opinion (though I strongly disagree); however, if you are going to discuss MY Jewishness (or lack thereof), it is unjust to also try and exclude me from that discussion! Also, if you read what I did say, you will find no suggestion that Jewish interests be sacrificed for Gentile interests. What I did say was that American Jews held more in common (language, enviroment, politics, etc.) with other Americans than with Jews in other countries. That does not mean American Jews ought to take the part of Americans against other Jews. If there is a conflict, we ought to take the part of whoever is right. Finally, if you wish to impose strict tests of Jewishness, be aware you run the danger of turning Judaism into a Phi Beta Kappa of sorts: an orginization whose primary concern is to decide who deserves the honor of membership. >This touches one of my main gripes against Ashkenazim. For almost all >Sefardim when they hear or read about the sufferings of Ashkenazim, it >is like it happened to their own families. When we tell the Ashkenazim >about our sufferings, for most Ashkenazim we could have been Martians >for all they seem to care. This touches one of my gripes against Martillo. Ashenazim are the whipping boys for all that is wrong in the Jewish world. Which reminds me of a question Martillo did not answer. So I will repeat it, and I would really be interested in a cogent answer: Martillo, why do you participate in this group? If it is to learn something from others on the net, why the authoritarian tone? If it is to teach us something, why the insult and abuse (you can't believe people are ever persuaded by verbal violence)? David Rubin {allegra|astrovax|princeton}!fisher!david