Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: notesfiles - hp 1.2 08/01/83; site hp-pcd.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxl!houxm!houxz!vax135!cornell!uw-beaver!tektronix!hplabs!hp-pcd!mfc From: mfc@hp-pcd.UUCP (mfc) Newsgroups: net.games.frp Subject: Surprise Attacks (the UnMelee) Message-ID: <24400006@hp-pcd.UUCP> Date: Fri, 10-Aug-84 18:58:00 EDT Article-I.D.: hp-pcd.24400006 Posted: Fri Aug 10 18:58:00 1984 Date-Received: Mon, 13-Aug-84 00:26:31 EDT Organization: Hewlett-Packard - Corvallis, OR Lines: 52 Nf-ID: #N:hp-pcd:24400006:000:2712 Nf-From: hp-pcd!mfc Aug 10 14:58:00 1984 A fellow DM and I are having a major disagreement concerning surprise attacks from the rear by thieves and assassins, and the multiple damage that they get. He says that these two classes only get the multiple damage (x2,x3,etc.) for hand-held weapons,since the only types of weapons listed in the PH under the Thief class are hand-held. He also says that the rea- soning behind this is that the multiple damage delivered is due to the strength of the attacker being used directly on the victim, and that this does not apply for missile weapons. I say that the weapons listed in the PH are given for example purposes only, and since there is no explicit restriction given anywhere in the TSR publications concerning the type of weapons thieves and assassins may use to get double damage, they should get it for any successful attack from the rear and with surprise. I also maintain that the reason that they get the multiple damage in the first place is that they have more experience in the sneaky surprise attack (whether up close or at a distance) and this ability allows them to be more selective about where they intend to strike their victim, thus allowing them to do more damage in this form of attack than, say, a fighter, who is used to facing his/her opponent. If this is the case then a thrown dagger or (in the case of assassins) an arrow would be able to do as much injury as a sword thrust. Note that in the above discussion, I say attack from the rear AND with surprise. This obviously only applies to thieves. An assassin only needs to attack with surprise; the attack can come from any direction. Neither of us has been able to convince the other one of our relative positions on this subject and the controversy has been going on for over a year and a half. I am hoping that this posting will generate a signif- icant response in support of one side or the other, or possibly suggest a different mechanism or argument altogether. Stay tuned in for future notes on: 1) Strength bonus for hand-thrown weapons. 2) Drowning and swimming underwater. 3) Drugs in AD&D. 4) The Compleat Equipment List. 5) The 'Light' Spell: point source or area effect? 6) More discussion on the limits of 'Phantasmal Force'. 7) Combat, Critical Hits, and Mortal Wounds. 8) 'Resurrection', 'Speak w/ Dead', and other mysteries beyond the veil. 9) The effects of Hand Grenade raids (oil bombs) against various and sundry monsters. and finally, 10) What to do if a Druid reincarnates you as a badger. We'll be right back after these words from our sponser. "Remember, never take the point. That's a Paladins job." From the World of Vindarten, Mark Cook