Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site decwrl.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!decvax!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-amber!chabot From: chabot@amber.DEC (Lisa S. Chabot) Newsgroups: net.singles,net.women Subject: Re: what the big deal is Message-ID: <2921@decwrl.UUCP> Date: Fri, 27-Jul-84 11:39:12 EDT Article-I.D.: decwrl.2921 Posted: Fri Jul 27 11:39:12 1984 Date-Received: Sat, 28-Jul-84 21:43:36 EDT Sender: daemon@decwrl.UUCP Organization: DEC Engineering Network Lines: 74 Alan had some interesting points, but I've got to question a couple of them: Alan S. Driscoll = % % In order to oppress a group in a democracy, at least one of the following % conditions must hold: % % (1) The group is a minority. % % (2) The group does not have voting rights. Nah. All ya gotta do is convince them that they're to be lead. All you have to do is play upon their upbringing that they they aren't self-reliant, that they aren't worth as much as the "superior" class, so that they either don't vote or they vote to support the "superior" class. It doesn't take being a minority to be oppressed, it takes being not outspoken...which can lead to isolation, you know. Alan speaks of good environments in his letter: % I create my own environment. So can you. So can any woman. % (And I know many who have.) There are enough people out there, enough % possibilities, that you can create whatever environment you like. Yes, I try to do this too. But then, sometimes I have to walk to the supermarket, or otherwise enter an environment over which I don't have a lot of control. I have to avoid places men could go -- I mean, guys, think about if there were known to be raunchy bars, whose patrons were mostly women, and if you accidentally wandered in and socialized, you could find yourself being sexually assaulted: bars are often rowdy and unfriendly to strangers, but as an exercise try walking around for a week while maintaining the attitude that bar potentially implies rape (and if this "rape" isn't spooky enough sounding for you then try thinking about having your pants pulled down and having everybody laugh at you bad and then molest you), and remember to feel scared about this, and then remember that WE *know* you're scared about this. ["WE" being the generic evil conspiracy of women, but, of course, not any women you know, since they are nice and sensitive and oblivious of the fact that when you go grocery shopping you have to quickly walk past the open door of a den of female sanctity (you live in a nice neighborhood, so it's probably not a rape-bar, but then, you don't want to risk finding out, do you? besides, they stare and whistle and call out nasty things when you walk by)]. OK. I'm not jumping up and down on Alan or anybody else, nor do I think I'm addressing all of Alan's issues or that I'm even talking about the intent of his letter or that I've caught his philosophy of life, put it in a killing jar, and pinned it out for display ... honest, ok? everybody believe me? Alan just reminded me of this outside world problem, and I just propose this as consciousness raising for those of us who've forgotten to include all of the outside world when thinking of equality. (I'm not mad, because I do it too, sometimes) Maybe it will be enlightening to some who can't figure out why their women friends get purple in the face and silent when someone is trying to tell them about how good things are now. Before I broke down and returned to school to gradiate, I programmed for a hospital, and one time there was interior construction going on in our area, and the women were stared at and whistled at and comments were made...we felt uncomfortable, but had to work up the nerve to complain, because, well, we were independent, adult, women and shouldn't be bothered with the rude remarks of construction workers (who are expected to make such remarks--sheesh! what an awful life), you know, equality means we have to take care of ourselves? Talking together, we eventually decided to complain, action was taken, and thereafter the workers only stared at us sullenly. (great. now we get repressed hostility.) Things are good. I take care of myself, I've got a technical job, I can carry on serious discussions on issues with men and we can listen to each other and we have topics of mutual interest. But like Rich and Robert and Brad and others often stand up and shout, us folk don't comprise the whole western world. But you are appreciated. L S Chabot UUCP: ...decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-amber!chabot ARPA: ...chabot%amber.DEC@decwrl.ARPA USFail: DEC, MR03-1/K20, 2 Iron Way, Marlborough, MA 01752