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From: stevev@tekchips.UUCP (Steve Vegdahl)
Newsgroups: net.kids
Subject: Re: Question to Rich
Message-ID: <4@tekchips.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 21-Aug-84 15:27:52 EDT
Article-I.D.: tekchips.4
Posted: Tue Aug 21 15:27:52 1984
Date-Received: Thu, 23-Aug-84 04:53:40 EDT
Organization: Tektronix, Beaverton OR
Lines: 57

Rich Rosen:
> If you've set the stage
> so that you can talk rationally to your child (children are no less rational
> than adults), then you have laid the groundwork.  If you teach a child to
> appreciate learning, there's no way that child is going to dislike school;
> the child will WANT to learn.  If you teach a child the reasons for not
> behaving in anti-social fashion, they won't do so; the child will understand
> the consequences of such actions.  If you've let the child know the ground
> rules regarding proper behavior, infractions, and fair punishment, rarely
> will you witness those rules being broken, and even more rarely will those
> rare infractions be malicious.  But it's got to start early, or it may never
> work at all.  Sad but true.  You ask what I'd have done.  I'd have been sure
> I'd laid that groundwork.

The above statements bear a striking resemblance to those of the proverbial
professor of child psychology who had six theories and no kids...
and then became a parent and ended up with six kids and no theories!

I believe that this question has been asked to you before Rich, but I haven't
seen the response:
	HOW MANY KIDS DO YOU HAVE?  WHAT ARE THEIR AGES?

Given my experience, I would have to say that raising (toddlers, anyway)
is significantly more challenging than that of maintaining a solid romantic
relationship.  Partners in such a relationship have had such the following
advantages over a parent/child relationship (in theory):
  1.  Both parties are responsible, sensitive adults, who are able to
	supress ones owns needs and desires when necessary to meet those
	of the other.  In a parent/child relationship, it is sometimes the
	case that the parent gives, gives, gives, while the child takes,
	takes, takes.
  2.  Both parties have chosen the other.  Except in cases such as the
	adoption of older children, you're stuck with who comes.
  3.  Both parties can articulate their feelings in plain English (or
	other language).  With kids, this is certainly not true for the
	year, and is only partially true for most of the next two years.
  4.  There is a socially acceptable escape, namely divorce.  It is much less
	socially acceptable for parents to walk out on their kids.

If, as Rich implies, kid-raising is so simple, I would contend that marriage
(or maintaining an analagous relationship) must be trivially easy.  If that's
the case, why do some large percentage marriages in this country (35%?) end
in divorce or separation.  Could someone out their give some simple rules for
romantic relationships (as Rich has done for kid-raising) that everyone can
follow, and thereby greatly reduce divorce in this country.

Making the rules is not difficult.  Living by them is virtually impossible.

		Steve Vegdahl
		Computer Research Lab.
		Tektronix, Inc.
		Beaverton, OR  97005

(By the way, my wife an I are coming up on our 6th anniversary next week.
We have two boys--one almost three, the other 5 weeks.  I am deeply in love
with my wife, and think that marriage and parenting is wonderful.)