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From: rlr@pyuxn.UUCP (Rich Rosen)
Newsgroups: net.singles
Subject: Re: Majority/Minority Stereotypes - Rebuttal
Message-ID: <984@pyuxn.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 15-Aug-84 10:49:10 EDT
Article-I.D.: pyuxn.984
Posted: Wed Aug 15 10:49:10 1984
Date-Received: Thu, 16-Aug-84 02:27:18 EDT
References: <3308@decwrl.UUCP> <2699@allegra.UUCP>
Organization: Bell Communications Research, Piscataway N.J.
Lines: 84

>> ...  A major difference between
>> stereotypes of minorities and stereotypes of "majorities".  Minority
>> stereotypes involve lies and falsehoods told about people to spread
>> hatred; some minorities actually adhered to the stereotypes, believing
>> that 1) they were supposed to, and 2) that "majorities" would be more
>> accepting of them if they behaved according to expectations.  Majority
>> stereotypes involve behaviors that we have seen more than our share
>> of examples of; while *some* minorities actually adhered to their
>> stereotypes for the reasons I've described, the funny thing is that
>> so many "majorities" do the same thing for the same reasons.

! If you're going to accept some forms of bigotry, but reject others, you
! have to be careful to cover yourself.  Lisa Chabot is good at this.  The
! trick is to choose your words carefully.
! If you're going to accept some forms of bigotry, but reject others, you
! have to be careful to cover yourself.  Lisa Chabot is good at this.  The
! trick is to choose your words carefully. [ALAN DRISCOLL 1]

One could make similar statements about things that you are "good at"
in your writing style, like obscuring the truth, ignoring other people's
opinions, etc.  Not that I *am* making such statements, or claiming them to be
true.  Just pointing out how vacuous it is as a form of argument...

> Ok, I screwed up.  Lisa, I apologize for dragging your good name
> through the mud.
> So, who *did* contribute the above gem to the great Maurer/Chabot debate?
> [ALAN DRISCOLL 2]

If certain people (there he goes, employing rule #1) would credit the people
they were quoting, we wouldn't have this problem at all.  I'll give credit for
the '>>' section where credit is due:  I wrote it.  And Mr. Maurer had a lot
to say about it.

>     A classic example of reverse bigotry.
>     I just wonder *who* determines if a stereotype is a "Minority" one
>     or a "Majority" one.   We all know, of course, that saying "All
>     Blacks are are interested in is playing Basketball" is a lie and
>     falsehood, but of course saying "All Men are insensitive assholes"
>     involve behaviors that we have seen more than our share of examples
>     of.  Too bad my dictionary doesn't agree (but then again, no doubt
>     the *Majority* wrote it).  It says:
> 
>     Stereotype (ste\~r'e\--\e-ti\ip) n. 1. A conventional, formulaic,
> 	and usually oversimplified or incorrect conception, opinion,
> 	or belief.

Interestingly enough, my dictionary has EXACTLY the same definition (American
Heritage), but listed as #2 (the words "or incorrect" were not found in my
dictionary; added for emphasis?).  #1 is the printing related definition.  But
Mr. Maurer seemed to ignore #3:

	3. a person, group, event, or issue considered to typify or conform to
		an unvarying pattern or manner, lacking any individuality: *the
		very stereotype of a college sophomore*

What does this mean?  That there *are* some people who do "typify or
conform to an unvarying pattern or manner, lacking any individuality"?  Could
this possibly be?

No, I see your point, Alan and Steve.  All stereotypes are the same, heinous
evil entities, whether there are people who fit them or not.  Thus, if you're
dealing with the bigoted stereotype of a black person (choose your own
"favorite" distasteful imagery) with which he/she has been labelled unfairly,
that's exactly the same as a stereotype CONSCIOUSLY ADHERED TO by millions of
American males (because they think they're "supposed to" or for whatever
reason).  Both are to be avoided and ignored (even though millions fall into
definition #3 of stereotype regarding the latter case).  Thank you for
clearing that up.  [NOTE:  THE ENTIRE PREVIOUS PARAGRAPH WAS INTENDED AS
SARCASM.]

Sounds like you're formulating a stereotype about stereotypes.  And, of course,
that's disgusting! :-)

(By the way, the terms "minority stereotype" and "majority stereotype" were
used simply because the modifiers described the types of groups who were being
stereotyped.  The ultimate judgment is the truth or falsehood of the content.
As for my "majority stereotypes" being "a classical example of reverse
bigotry", bigotry requires two elements:  hatred and lies.  Neither one was
present in this case.  [THIS HAD TO BE THE MOST COMPLICATED FOLLOWUP I'VE EVER
DONE, EXTRACTING FROM FOUR DIFFERENT ARTICLES AND INSERTING RANDOM SECTIONS OF
MY OWN PLANNED FOLLOWUPS AT DIFFERENT POINTS.  DO I GET A MEDAL?] )
-- 
"Come with me now to that secret place where
 the eyes of man have never set foot."		Rich Rosen    pyuxn!rlr