Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83 SMI; site sun.uucp Path: utzoo!linus!decvax!decwrl!sunny From: sunny@sun.uucp (Sunny Kirsten) Newsgroups: net.singles Subject: Re: disgusting! Message-ID: <1607@sun.uucp> Date: Thu, 9-Aug-84 14:13:27 EDT Article-I.D.: sun.1607 Posted: Thu Aug 9 14:13:27 1984 Date-Received: Fri, 10-Aug-84 08:20:28 EDT References: <28@ism780b.UUCP> <1201@nsc.UUCP>, <1577@sun.uucp> <2648@allegra.UUCP> <939@pyuxn.UUCP> Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. Lines: 45 What can I say about quotes out of context? Can you say "devil's advocate"? Have you ever considered taking a position opposite to your beliefs for the sake of argument? Was it so unobvious that I was pointing out the extremes of stereotype in order to stimulate thinking, discussion, argument? The purpose here is to discuss sex/gender roles and how people relate to them. If you feel offended by my pointing out the extreme of macho male stereotype, then you have indicated your self identity with that stereotype, or you're just sensitive enough to reject stereotypification. Remember, there is usually some validity to stereotypes, or they would evolve to more closely reflect the reality of majority cases. This group has recently seen much discussion of people and their stereotypes. I'm trying to stimulate people to think about the roles they play. Saying that I love macho men would generate little discussion---like, so what? But saying that stereotypical macho men have certain characteristics generates some dissention, which stimulates thinking. Of course the stereotypes I'm discussing ignore individuality! We're talking about the stereotypes, not the individual. That's why I posted a poll, to get a range of viewpoints varying from, yes, I believe the stereotypes are valid from my experience, to no... my experience shows the opposite of the stereotypes. Stereotypes ARE labels which ignore reality, but the average of reality is usually the basis of the stereotype, is it not? I am aware of MANY very caring and sensitive men who do NOT fit the stereotype I was discussing. I treat people as individuals and always give them the benefit of a clean slate when I meet them, not projecting MY perceptions of stereotypes onto individuals. Yet if you wish to discuss a class of individuals you DON'T know personally, stereotypes are your first basis of trying to relate. As classes of people, women TEND to (stereotypically) be more nurturing, caring, sensitive, emotional, and intuitive than the (stereotypical) male who tends to be more agressive, dominant, less sensitive, and less emotional. Likewise, if you compare your average male construction worker with your average USENET male, you'll likely find more crudity and less sensitivity than from your netter. The stereotypes don't usually make that distinction. Individuals are another matter entirely. Unfortunately for the poll I posted, my return address as generated by news software was incorrect. I was soliciting mail replies, many of which will not get to me if you replied from readnews, or similar software. My appologies to all those playing postmaster on various systems connected to SUN, who will be inundated with mail whose path ends ...!sunny instead of ...!sun!sunny. Looking forward to more replies, then I'll summarize... -- {ucbvax|decvax|ihnp4}!sun!sunny(Sunny Kirsten of Sun Microsystems)