Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site kpnoa.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxl!ihnp4!zehntel!hplabs!hao!noao!kpnoa!sharp From: sharp@kpnoa.UUCP Newsgroups: net.flame Subject: Guns, deaths and DATA Message-ID: <360@kpnoa.UUCP> Date: Thu, 2-Aug-84 15:36:11 EDT Article-I.D.: kpnoa.360 Posted: Thu Aug 2 15:36:11 1984 Date-Received: Sat, 4-Aug-84 03:39:35 EDT Organization: Natl. Optical Astronomy Observatories Tucson AZ USA Lines: 63 Why is it that so many people involved in this USELESS round of gun arguments, which comes up regularly and NEVER EVER changes anyone's mind, abide by the "I don't know, but I expect .. " form of 'statistics' ?? It's really not difficult to find out FACTS, and I am obviously being very idealistic in expecting this to change anything, but I offer the following for consideration. Because I am using the numbers here in my office, they are for 1974: I have not made the walk to the library to get more recent ones because, frankly, I doubt that it's worth the effort. USA Canada UK Australia France West Ireland Spain Germany Causes of death (% of total deaths) Neoplasms/cancer 18.9 20.4 20.8 17.4 21.7 21.4 17.6 17.3 Diseases of: Circulatory sys. 53.2 49.3 51.9 54.0 37.9 46.4 50.8 44.2 Respiratory sys. 5.6 6.5 13.3 7.6 6.6 5.9 13.1 11.9 Digestive sys. 3.8 3.7 2.5 2.6 6.2 5.6 2.2 5.5 Ill-defined conditions 1.6 0.9 0.6 0.8 8.0 3.8 1.6 5.6 Accidents, poisoning and violence 8.1 10.1 3.9 7.7 8.9 6.6 5.1 5.1 OK, now lets look at the accidents in more detail. No. of accidental deaths per 100000 deaths caused by: motor vehicle 2399 3792 1126 3294 2139 1958 1609 1609 poisoning 286 417 142 114 120 66 115 115 falls 845 1098 957 1033 2494 1626 1397 919 firearms 130 73 7 53 23 7 31 24 industrial 289 529 125 292 99 175 283 200 There are a few other categories, but that will do for now. There are also figures for other countries available (lowest firearms figure I have available is "2", for Denmark: Switzerland is "13"). Source: World Health Organization. Let's try something else. Crime rate figures are difficult to intercompare, because different countries use different methods, but ... Murders and attempted murders known to the police, per 100000 population: USA, 9.6 | Canada, 3.4 | UK (excluding N.Ireland), 2.4 | Australia, 2.7 | France, 2.7 | W.Germany, 4.5 | Ireland, 0.03 | Spain, 0.7 [For sex offenses, the numbers are 26.3, 55.0, 49.7, 90.8, 26.2, 77.5, 8.7 and 12.2, respectively. Make of this what you will.] Source: Interpol/FBI You might also like to know that the US has the highest percentage figures for a) people who suffered burglary or attempted burglary b) people who have had property stolen with Australia 2nd, Canada 3rd (well down), but that all three countries have about the same rate for people who have been physically assaulted, with the US actually slightly below the other two. Source: Gallup International affiliated institutes It is also sad to note that in the same poll (1974-75), more than a third of those questioned said they were afraid of areas within 20 minutes walk of their own front door. I have moved off the question somewhat, but because people are different in different countries (as pointed out by various participants in the 'raving' [it's not a debate]), I thought some other comparisons would help. Yours, in the interests of information and knowledgeable discussion, -- Nigel Sharp [noao!sharp National Optical Astronomy Observatories]