Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 exptools 1/6/84; site ihuxq.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!decvax!mcnc!akgua!clyde!floyd!harpo!ihnp4!ihuxq!amigo2 From: amigo2@ihuxq.UUCP (John Hobson) Newsgroups: net.sf-lovers Subject: Re: Flaming at Heinlein Message-ID: <601@ihuxq.UUCP> Date: Tue, 7-Feb-84 11:01:29 EST Article-I.D.: ihuxq.601 Posted: Tue Feb 7 11:01:29 1984 Date-Received: Thu, 9-Feb-84 22:47:04 EST References: <507@pucc-h> <499@aplvax.UUCP> Organization: AT&T Bell Labs, Naperville, IL Lines: 42 Spider Robinson's laudatory essay on Heinlein, "Rah, Rah, R.A.H" is in the book "Time Travelers Strictly Cash." I'm sorry, but while both you and Robinson like Heinlein, I find that I too often find him just about unreadable. He preaches, rather than suggests. When he wants to, he can tell a very good story, but all too often, he doesn't really seem to want to. I don't like his philosophy, which I once described as being "by Hugh Hefner out of Ayn Rand", to which a friend of mine responded "Every man for himself and carry a big prick." In Time Enough For Love (once known to sf-lovers as Time Enough To Screw Around), he seems to agree with Harlan Ellison that "Love Ain't Nothin But Sex Misspelled." If you don't agree with that, then tell me why EVERY female character wants to have sex with Lazarus Long. And I don't mean "make love to",I mean "have sex with." If Heinlein doesn't know the difference, then I feel sorry for him. The book of his that I like the least is Starship Troopers. Anyone who says that war is morally good has a warped sense of morality. (I mentioned in an earlier submission that Heinlein has no personal combat experience.) The classic attitude towards war in Christianity (I know that Heinlein makes no claims about being a Christian, but I am, and what I am about to say is agreed upon by many non-Christians) is the "Just War Theory." This says that war is ordinarily morally repugnant, but under certain circumstances (carefully detailed), it can be morally justified. Unfortunately, the Just War has frequently been abused, and more governments pay lip service to it, rather than observe it. It is like what G. K. Chesterton said about Christianity: "Christianity has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult, and not tried." If you want to discuss war and morality further, then I suggest we move the discussion to net.religion or net.politics. I just want to say that I found ST the most gung-ho war story that I have ever read, and was almost sickened that anyone can hold the attitude towards war that Heinlein does (in case you missed my earlier submission, I was in the infantry in Viet Nam.) John Hobson AT&T Bell Labs Naperville, IL (312) 979-0193 ihnp4!ihuxq!amigo2