Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site fortune.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!we13!ihnp4!fortune!phipps From: phipps@fortune.UUCP (Clay Phipps) Newsgroups: net.politics Subject: Innocent Civilians / Re: Flame On America Message-ID: <2410@fortune.UUCP> Date: Wed, 1-Feb-84 23:15:37 EST Article-I.D.: fortune.2410 Posted: Wed Feb 1 23:15:37 1984 Date-Received: Tue, 7-Feb-84 13:50:51 EST References: <132@ames-lm.UUCP> Organization: Fortune Systems, Redwood City, CA Lines: 35 The claim that there are no such things as "innocent civilians" in total war is fallacious; "innocent civilians" are those who were involved, without their consent, in a war by the decisions of their government or some other government. Ironically, by my definition, citizens of totalitarian states, be they rightist or leftist, are the most "innocent". They have little or no say in how their government behaves. As far as voting is concerned, there may be a pseudoelection to ratify a single-party slate of "candidates", or no election at all. When was the last time that the people of the Soviet Union got to choose between a pacifist and a warmonger (or make any choice at all) for president of their country ? In the democracies, the citizens sometimes have the *opportunity* to make clear choices between "peace-loving" and "warmongering" candidates, or between deployment of nuclear weapons and nondeployment (as was the case in recent European elections) so citizens of these countries must take some responsibility for the actions of their leaders. They also have less of a claim of innocence. If Reagan starts a major war, we must keep in mind that at least some of us voted for him. Of course, not all of the citizens are old enough to vote. By the way, the fallout and other side effects from a nuclear war are not likely to be so well behaved as to stop precisely at the borders of only those countries who are voluntarily involved in the war. I'm sure that this has a lot (everything ?) to do with the strong opinions held by our Canadian neighbors and European allies. -- Clay Phipps -- {allegra,amd70,cbosgd,dsd,floyd,harpo,hpda,ihnp4, megatest,nsc,oliveb,sri-unix,twg,varian,VisiA,wdl1} !fortune!phipps