Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!floyd!harpo!ihnp4!inuxc!pur-ee!uiucdcs!miller From: miller@uiucdcs.UUCP (miller ) Newsgroups: net.misc Subject: creation/evolution - (nf) Message-ID: <5420@uiucdcs.UUCP> Date: Mon, 6-Feb-84 22:28:47 EST Article-I.D.: uiucdcs.5420 Posted: Mon Feb 6 22:28:47 1984 Date-Received: Thu, 9-Feb-84 13:43:45 EST Lines: 98 #N:uiucdcs:10600138:000:6342 uiucdcs!miller Feb 6 12:55:00 1984 I'd like to continue the creation/evolution discussion with a review of the Paluxy River in Glen Rose, Texas. You see, according to evolutionists, dinosaurs became extinct 70 million years before the appearance of any primate, and in particular, man. Creationists contend that at one point, all of the various kinds of plants and animals were alive at the same time (with only ex- tinctions occurring since then). Basically the same order of fossils in the geological column is to be expected by either model (see "The Genesis Flood" by Dr. Henry Morris for why). However, so called "out-of order" fossils are perfectly consistent with the creation model; they are fatal to evolution. In Glen Rose, Texas, the Paluxy River cuts through the local column of Cretaceous limestone. Long known for its abundance of dinosaur fossilized footprints, Texas set up "Dinosaur Valley State Park". In the same strata with the dinosaur footprints, creationists claim to have discovered human foot- prints. If true, it is strong positive confirmation of the creation model. I have seen literature on both sides of the issue, e.g., "Tracking Those Incredible Dinosaurs" by the creationist Dr. John Morris, and the evolutionary "Creation/Evolution" and "Skeptical Inquirer". In addition, I had the opportunity to spend the last spring break on the McFall farm on the Paluxy. My conclusions: the human tracks are genuine. In talking with people and in reading the literature, I have found three levels of knowledge on the subject: LEVEL 1: Some people simply define the tracks out of existence. They claim they don't exist. However, as this site (and others like it; Paluxy is not alone - it is simply the biggest known so far) gets more media attention, people are starting to become more aware and so the number of people in Level 1 is getting smaller. LEVEL 2: The tracks exist, but they aren't old footprints. This category can be divided into several subsections. For example, some claim that the tracks are erosion patterns from the Paluxy, dinosaur tail drags, etc. This explains some, but not all, of the features. Indeed, erosion patterns and tail drags can be found. But those things do not create subtle human foot features such as toe impressions, ball of foot, arch, heel, and other distinct characteris- tics. Despite what many would like to believe, these features do exist in many of the prints and are in correct sizes and proportions in a clear right-left sequence. You know, one of the reasons Austrolopithecus is claimed by some to have walked upright is that Mary Leakey found a footprint in rock strata in which bones such as Lucy, etc. were found. But that footprint is not nearly as good as quality as some of those found in Glen Rose; yet no one questions that *some* primate made Leakey's tracks. The only reason the Glen Rose footprints are rejected is that they are found in Cretaceous limestone (a case of theory getting in the way of fact it appears to me). Another explanation for the tracks is that they were carved as hoaxes. Again, this has some merit, but does not explain all of the data. In the Great Depression era, the local residents found out that there was a market for these prints. So, they begin cutting them out of the limestone and selling them. Eventually, however, the supply of known footprints (mostly dinosaur since they brought a higher price) ran out. A man by the name of Bull Adams learned that he could carve the things easier than he could remove the top heavy limestone layers and discover new ones. So, he began to carve them (again, mostly dino although a few human ones were carved). However, since the time of Bull Adams (motivated by $$$$ rather than any creation/evolution implications) new tracks have been discover- ed, sometimes in full view of the media and evolutionary scientists sent to "oversee" the work. This is well documented in the literature if you care to spend the time searching it all out. And last, I need to mention one final evidence that the tracks are genuine. In some places, the original mud was not homogeneous. In those cases, a series of lamination lines can be observed by cross-sectioning the prints. In the case of carvings (either by erosion or by human tools) the depressions cut through the lamination lines. In genuine footprints made when the mud was soft, the lamination lines follow the contour of the depressions. Many of the prints have been subjected to cross-sectioning and have been shown to be authentic. This is illustrated below: REAL FOOTPRINT CARVING lamination lines lamination lines follow the contour cut across of the depression the depression ____ ____ ____ ____ ____\ /____ _____ _____ ____\\____//____ ________________ \\____// \____/ LEVEL 3: The prints are real footprints, but they are not human. This is the response usually given by evolutionists who have had the opportunity to observe first-hand the excavation of some of the better prints (you realize, of course, that there is a variety of quality in the prints - both dino and human. This is to be expected for any animal walking through mud which may vary in consis- tency, wetness, etc.) This is a fair point to raise. After all, no living human was alive when the prints were laid down in the Cretaceous limestone. However, the question then raised for evolutionists is if men did not make the tracks, what did? Any primate does not solve the problems as none were sup- posed to be around at that time. In fact, no evidence has ever been found for a hypothetical creature with a footprint IDENTICAL to man. The anatomical fea- tures are so good in some of the prints, it is only evolutionary presupposi- tions that stand in the way of the obvious conclusion: at one time, man coexisted with the dinosaurs. Objective people like to hear both sides of an issue. I strongly suggest you read material by both creationists and evolutionists on the matter (not material *about* one side *by* the other). Then make up your own minds. A. Ray Miller Univ Illinois