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From: preece@uicsl.UUCP
Newsgroups: net.women
Subject: Re: 60 Minutes on Rape - (nf)
Message-ID: <5352@uiucdcs.UUCP>
Date: Fri, 3-Feb-84 23:16:47 EST
Article-I.D.: uiucdcs.5352
Posted: Fri Feb  3 23:16:47 1984
Date-Received: Wed, 8-Feb-84 05:39:59 EST
Lines: 67

#R:houxu:-28800:uicsl:16400038:000:3649
uicsl!preece    Feb  3 14:05:00 1984

	There has be a personal price to pay for this and other criminal acts.
	People who rape should pay for it. Giving them drugs for their crime
	is a reward, not a punishment.
----------
I can't agree.  In an ideal world there would be no punishment, only
adjustment.  The problem is making the adjustment without otherwise
changing the person.  If it were possible to magically adjust the rapist's
mind so that he or she recognized the horror of the act and acquired
society's view of it, then there would be no point to punishment.  If the
anti-social person could be made pro-social, punishment would be simple
revenge and unworthy of society.  Unfortunately, we cannot make such
adjustments without drastic alteration of other aspects of the
individual criminal's personality.  Our respect for the individual
prohibits such changes (at least on an involuntary basis) as cruel and
inhuman punishment.

If someone raped my daughter, I would probably want to kill him,
whether or not he could be socialized.  On the other hand, if an
elephant stepped on her, I would probably want to kill the elephant.
If it were possible to cure the anti-social parts of the criminal's
personality, then my response in either case is irrational and
unjustified.  The rape is an accident and not the 'fault' of anyone.
[Yes, Laura, I know we should make people more responsible; what I'm
saying is that if someone is NOT responsible, and could be made to
be so, that would be better for society than punishing him for
his prior actions. I don't pretend we have the ability to do this today,
and I don't think the testosterone business is proven.  I don't think
it unreasonable to say that someone's anti-social behavior represents
society's failure rather than his own; in the current world that may
not mean anything -- we may need to isolate such persons from society
for the safety of the rest -- but if it were possible to provably and
accurately eliminate the anti-social aspects of the person, the view
that society is responsible for the irresponsible would mandate a
significant change in treatment.]

I don't claim I could be rational in the event, but I do believe
strongly that society should be rational beyond the ability of
its individual members.  Society doesn't let me shoot someone as
revenge and it shouldn't seek vengeance itself.

{Please, people, don't write and tell me that I'm urging 1984 or
Brave New World on us.  I'm speaking of ideals and underlying assumptions,
not of anything remotely possible today.  I realize the danger of changing
individuals to avoid the anti-social;  sometimes we need the anti-social.
On the other hand, prison seems barbaric and counter-productive.
I just don't believe in vengeance, whether on the individual or
societal level.]

Consider, in closing, an analogy.  Suppose it became possible to
fix near-sightedness. You would not expect the cured patient to go
on wearing glasses.  Yet those who support the verdict "guilty but
mentally ill" say that we should first cure the subject and then
punish him or her for what was done before.  That's dumb and
spiteful, ASSUMING that we can accurately say that the suspect (1)
was not responsible for the act and (2) is cured.  I don't think we can
say the latter with any assurance in most cases, and the former
makes me nervous.  That's the framework I want to be interpreted in:
the assumption that we can really and truly fix the criminal's
behavior.  I'm not sure that will ever be generally possible, it's
just the basis for my response to the notion that the criminal
should be punished even if a cure is possible.

scott preece
ihnp4!uiucdcs!uicsl!preece