Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site pucc-h Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!floyd!harpo!ihnp4!inuxc!pur-ee!CS-Mordred!Pucc-H:aeq From: aeq@pucc-h (Jeff Sargent) Newsgroups: net.religion Subject: Re: critiquing the (yawn) followups Message-ID: <526@pucc-h> Date: Tue, 7-Feb-84 05:06:25 EST Article-I.D.: pucc-h.526 Posted: Tue Feb 7 05:06:25 1984 Date-Received: Thu, 9-Feb-84 14:15:21 EST References: <811@qubix.UUCP>, <442@pyuxn.UUCP> Organization: Purdue University Computing Center Lines: 72 Rich Rosen writes: > Your ... mind has again failed to let you see > another (to me, more viable) option. Don't worship anything. Is that > frightening to you? Do you need to have something to worship, regardless > of any proof (or lack thereof) of its existence? You compare belief in a > morality code (one either developed by human beings, as I contend, or one > "granted" to us by god, as you contend) with worship of god. Belief in a > positive idea is a good thing, but don't compare it with worshipping a > deity. I don't worship my morality code. I live by it. God or no god. A book by a friend of mine named Doug Dickey (former campus minister at Purdue, now at Cal State Fullerton), entitled "What Else?", makes this point (I'm quoting the idea rather than the exact words; the book is not with me): People are incurably religious. The question is not *whether* people will worship, but rather *what* will be worshipped. By "religious", he of course did not mean that everyone likes the rituals of organized religion; rather, that everyone is looking for answers to life's deepest questions (why am I here? and the like), which the various belief systems offer answers for. The point is that there is probably SOMETHING in your life, Rich, which you, in some sense, worship. Another point Dickey made was that an idol (a false god) always looks like God in some way; a counterfeit is, by definition, an imitation of the original. The book then analyzed several belief systems, some fairly formal (e.g. humanism), some less formalized (e.g. materialism, hedonism). All of them, he showed, give you something to base your life on, to offer allegiance to, and indeed to worship. If you're really interested, you might check out your local Christian bookstore. If the book isn't in stock, it can (probably) be ordered from Standard Publishing. Another book which I think I may have recommended to you before is C.S. Lewis's "Mere Christianity" (a good way for you to learn about the belief system you are attacking, so you don't flame out of ignorance). I suggest that you read it rather than ask me to digest it for you; Lewis's points, particularly his DEDUCTION (not blind assertion) that the code generally accepted as "moral" or "good" must have been created by some agency outside what we normally call "the world" or "reality", are much more cogent in the original than in my hazy memory. Also, the real point of Christianity is NOT belief in a positive idea, or even in a moral code. (I will grant that many who label themselves as Christians seem to think that it is; but I parted company with them some time ago.) The point is to be in right relationship to God, which will (eventually) result in your being in right relationship to yourself, to other people, and to the world at large. And it works! A great part of the psychological healing I have experienced in the last several years occurred in the "Intensive Prayer" ward, i.e. when I really opened up to God and He came in and changed me. Ask those who knew me several years ago to compare me then with me now. I'm much nicer to be around, much happier, much more confident, etc. This is not quantifiable PROOF that God exists or that He helps those who call on Him, but it's certainly EVIDENCE. One final point: All this only works when the Christian humbles himself, acknowledges that he's screwed up (in two senses: he's made mistakes, and he's in sub-optimal condition), admits that God knows the right thing to do much better than he does, and repents. Lest you be put off by that last churchy- sounding word, I will point out that it is a translation of the Greek word "metanoia", which means, approximately, "change the mind". God doesn't want to force anything on you. Rather, he wants to bring you to the point at which you discover for yourself that your existing choices are not the best thing for you or anyone else, so you change your mind because you WANT to change and be different. "He who exalts himself shall be humbled; but he who humbles himself shall be exalted." It's true. It has worked for me. -- Jeff Sargent/...pur-ee!pucc-h:aeq