Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site ssc-vax.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!decvax!harpo!ulysses!burl!clyde!floyd!vax135!cornell!uw-beaver!ssc-vax!david From: david@ssc-vax.UUCP (David Norris) Newsgroups: net.religion Subject: Free Will vs. Omnipotence Message-ID: <840@ssc-vax.UUCP> Date: Sun, 19-Feb-84 18:09:31 EST Article-I.D.: ssc-vax.840 Posted: Sun Feb 19 18:09:31 1984 Date-Received: Tue, 21-Feb-84 04:49:54 EST Organization: Boeing Aerospace, Seattle Lines: 35 Jon White, explaining how free will and omnipotence relate (or don't relate): >Let me see if I can explain this a little better. It should be obvious that an > omnipotent and omniscient being would not be constrained by "our" time. > Therefore, God, by definition, is in a constant state of being everywhere >(past, present, and future) at once. Because God exists in the future (as well > as everywhere else), it stands to reason that there must be a future out there > for Him to exist in. That is why I claimed that God must have created the > entire lifetime of the universe at the moment of creation. And, of course, if > the entire lifetime of the universe already exists, all of our individual > destinies are preordainded by God. Is this clear? No. Are you saying that none of us have free will, or that God (as Christians think of Him) doesn't exist because we have free will? >> ...it seems to me that any proof that God has some >> limit to his power is going to be flawed because it is based on finite >> reasoning. I often wonder if proponents of such arguments are themselves >> unaware of the limits that time imposes on their thinking... > I have never been impressed by arguments such as this. What you are basically > saying is that God is so far beyond our understanding, that it is pointless to > even try. (Whoops, gag, choke) Let me get those words out of my mouth! No, I never said that (although I do believe God is far above our understanding). Perhaps you have not put your view plain enough. It seems you are offering us a choice: A) None of us have free will, or B) God is not as omnipotent as we (Christians) make Him out to be. Is that right? I'll wait for a response before "knocking down any strawmen", as we are all fond of saying. -- David Norris :-) -- uw-beaver!ssc-vax!david