Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site pucc-h Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!hou3c!hocda!houxm!ihnp4!inuxc!pur-ee!CS-Mordred!Pucc-H:aeq From: aeq@pucc-h (Jeff Sargent) Newsgroups: net.religion Subject: Re: Re: Weird and wonderful idea Message-ID: <548@pucc-h> Date: Sat, 18-Feb-84 14:06:12 EST Article-I.D.: pucc-h.548 Posted: Sat Feb 18 14:06:12 1984 Date-Received: Mon, 20-Feb-84 07:16:37 EST References: <2538@azure.UUCP> Organization: Purdue University Computing Center Lines: 85Response to Jon White: > Everyone, at one time or another, has experienced the type of loneliness > that you have described, but you have compounded your misery by believing > that a personal god is controlling events in your life. What is He trying > to tell you? What plans does He have for you? What does all of this mean? > The obvious answer to these questions is NOTHING. You are futilely > ascribing an importance to events that just isn't there. Obviously, I disagree. One reason I sounded so desperate is that I'm a perfectionist: I still, sometimes, go at faith and the whole question of God's will from the negative feeling that *I* have got to do the best possible, that I have to know what that is so I can do it--a leftover of my school days when, having nothing else, I got my whole identity from being a whiz kid. And I'm a perfectionist about myself: It is obvious that I don't live a Christlike life, and I condemn myself (despite the verse "There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus"). I get very frustrated when it isn't obvious which direction to go to reach perfection. I will readily admit that I am uncomfortable with the following quote from Dr. Paul Tournier, which I reproduce to spur on other uncomfortable Christians (and non-Christians) on the net: "The person who will not dare to risk being mistaken about the will of God will never come to know God any better." > If you choose to live your life in a superstitious fashion, believing that > some deity is constantly rewarding/punishing you and everyone else, then I > guarantee that you will never be able to view the world through anything > other than the foggiest of glasses. I DON'T believe that God is sitting up there judging, tossing out plums to those who do His will and zapping those who don't (though I'm not all that far, chronologically, from such a belief). "As you sow, so shall you reap"; that's just the way the world runs; God doesn't usually make a special point of zinging us; you make your bed, you lie in it. But the Bible talks about an abundant, joyous life. I've had a life with minimal abundance and joy (though it could be worse; I have a friend who's quadriplegic), so I have more than the normal desire for some joy, some happiness--which is really what God wants us to have; I'm just not sure how to get there, or as I said in my article, what I'm not seeing that's obvious to anyone else. But you have it backward: It's not the fact that I believe in God that is fogging my glasses; it's the fact that I don't believe enough. > So, my advice to you is stop trying to carry all that superstitious baggage > and start seeing life for what it really is: a mixture of joy and pain > that is somewhat in your power to control, but often seems subject to > events beyond your control. There comes a time for all of us to cast aside > belief in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy, and likewise comes a time when > any thinking individual must decide whether the whole concept of a personal > god is realistic or just someone else's wishful thinking. I realize that > there are a lot of folks out there who are desperately clinging on to a > belief in supernatural religion because they fear that life would be > meaningless without it, and to them I can say only their life must be truly > meaningless if they must use a fairy tale to justify their existence. Inasmuch as (believe it or not) I am in much BETTER psychological condition overall now than I was, say, 9 years ago (or even 2 years ago), and that most of the change has occurred as a result of prayer (intensive communication with God), I have long since decided that the concept of a personal God is indeed realistic. My view of Him is obviously not totally realistic, since I still feel so rocky. Still, if I did not know Him, my life would not only be meaningless; it might not even still be continuing; without going into details, I can say that were it not for my relationship with Christ, I would probably be one or more of: dead by my own hand (the likeliest); in prison; or dead by the electric chair. Besides, I program computers for a living. This is, I contend, a rather meaningless activity by itself. (I don't feel up to defending this position in detail right now.) Basically, I agree with you that I have to somehow get out of my present position; but I don't think you're leading me the right way. It has been at my times when I was in closest touch with God that I was happiest, had greatest confidence, wrote my best songs, etc. But the Christian life is an uphill climb; when I top one ridge, I recognize (eventually) another, higher one to be climbed. And in my case, the motivation to keep climbing is the hope (sometimes a hope against hope) that things will get better, that as I really come to understand God and do His will, that I will finally begin to partake more than sporadically of that joy which He intends all His children to feast upon. -- -- Jeff Sargent {allegra|ihnp4|decvax|harpo|seismo|teklabs|ucbvax}!pur-ee!pucc-h:aeq "Buy the truth and do not sell it; gain wisdom, knowledge, and understanding."