Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!decvax!harpo!seismo!hao!hplabs!sri-unix!FISCHER@RUTGERS.ARPA From: FISCHER@RUTGERS.ARPA Newsgroups: net.micro Subject: Re: Lisa 2 disenchantment Message-ID: <16799@sri-arpa.UUCP> Date: Thu, 16-Feb-84 14:42:05 EST Article-I.D.: sri-arpa.16799 Posted: Thu Feb 16 14:42:05 1984 Date-Received: Tue, 21-Feb-84 03:58:02 EST Lines: 72 From: RonHere are some facts about the Lisa: * The Lisa runs at a clock rate just over 5 MHz. The Macintosh is just over 7.5 MHz. Yes, but accesses to MacIntosh RAM are interleaved with video refresh accesses, yielding an average MacSpeed of about 6Mhz. Now, correct me if I am wrong, but I conclude from this: 1. The Lisa is slow. Well, sure, but on a more or less "for personal use" machine this is wonderfully fast (I have one, it is pounds of fun). If cannot justify buying a personal machine without Dec-20 performance for your desktop then you may have to wait more than 2 years... * The Lisa is software compatible if you use an emulator program called MacAlike. ... 3. It appears that being Macintosh compatible means running VERY slow (slow clock rate, emulation software). I do not think so. Unless the emulator is written badly it will just configure Lisa's mmu (a nice custom design by Apple) to present linear memory and setup the instruction traps which Mac uses to perform some system functions. Not really slower (perhaps by 1Mhz). 4. Its going to be expensive to run Lisa software on Lisa (due to the seperate package and sales approach of Lisa software). I believe a fully configured system running the Desktop is about $8500. Facts about Uniplus+ unix. ... * Needs the 10 MByte disk (Lisa 2/10) and leaves little for the user. You could do what we did: buy a diskless Lisa and get a Corvus 20 Meg drive for it. UniPress will tell you all about the configuration. Requires the parallel port and a cable. Is faster than the Apple drives and has twice as much storage. There is also a drive availible from a company called SUNOL, which is 40Meg, and still faster. Although of two units UniPress has shipped one was DOA. The Corvus seems more reliable. * Treats the display as an adm3 terminal. Yes, this is annoying, but the screen access is very fast (seems like 9600 baud, screen is about 38 by 85 chars), is not too annoying. * Troff does not interface with the bit-mapped display or Imagewriter printer. There is a battle going on at Apple as to who will port the window manager software (ToolKit) to Unix. I offered to do this for them myself, in return for documentation and a free copy. * Emacs does not run on it (yet). Patently false. I have Gosling Emacs, supplied by UniPress, running now. * The bit-mapped display (and all those lovely routines in ROM) is not easily accessible from C. I am able to access the bitmap. No support software, but you could write what you needed if you had the time. Conclusion: 2. Of what use is a bit-mapped display and high-efficiency ROM routines if I must hack into them? Yes, my feelings too. Unix is not high priority at Apple and apparently the people at Apple managing the ToolKit project wear white greasepaint, red rubber noses, red hair and work at the circus part time. One interesting thing to note is that the Lisa could do virtual memory if a 68010 replaced the 68000, and the software was ported. (ron) -------