Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site abnjh.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxl!abnjh!lute From: lute@abnjh.UUCP (J. Collymore) Newsgroups: net.singles Subject: Collected Comments on Dance Attitudes Message-ID: <466@abnjh.UUCP> Date: Wed, 15-Feb-84 09:10:59 EST Article-I.D.: abnjh.466 Posted: Wed Feb 15 09:10:59 1984 Date-Received: Fri, 17-Feb-84 04:43:56 EST Organization: ATTIS, NJ Lines: 181 Jim Collymore asks if there are regional differences in the acceptability of women dancing together, especially east/west or Canada/U.S. differences. Well, I live in Connecticut, and I have seen women dancing together here -- but CT is part of the "tri-state area" of NY, NJ and CT (Jim noticed women dancing together in NY and NJ). I have, however, been to many parties in Montreal, and I saw no women dancing together there. Montreal is in eastern Canada. Perhaps the major difference is really one of north/south rather than east/west. In Pittsburgh, this women-dancing-with-women thing is also common and not considered a sign of homosexuality. However, I've always felt awkward asking one of N women to dance, since I feel that in a way I'm putting down the other N-1. I especially feel sort of bad if the N-1 are, as they say, "two-baggers." Ah, well... -- I find it sad that women would only dance together because there are no men around or the men around don't interest them. I have two women friends here in waterloo with whom I dance at times simply because I like to dance with them and they seem to like to dance with me. Both of them are foreign students, one polish, and one brazilian and they both find it very normal that we dance together (so do I). We once had one man (Egyptian) harass us trying to physically stop us from dancing together, but as we continued and insisted we wanted to, he finally gave up. We were never harassed since. I have noticed that non-american women don't seem as worried about homosexuality as american ones are. In france, where my mother comes from, women often dance together and nobody objects or finds it weird. I had a funny experience one day. I was in a sort of discotheque with 3 men and 3 women. The seven of us were dancing together and one man who was quite drunk noticed that there we were an odd number, so he came over and started harassing the women in our group, touching us and making very explicit sexual gestures. One of the women was a young swedish women Greta, we had just made friends with, who was very nice looking, and who didn't know english very well. he started bothering her and she didn't know what to do. At that point the men in our group started looking very upset and it looked as though things were going to turn sour, so I grabbed Greta by the shoulders, started dancing with her and kissed her on the cheeks. She understood and kissed me back. The man got very disgusted and walked away. I told that story to a few of my Canadian girlfriends and one of them told me "well, I hope you'd NEVER do that to me, I'd KICK you!!!" ----- I was in Lindsay, Ont once and a friend of mine pointed out a difference in dancing attitudes there. Dancing rates 0 on a social significance scale. If you ask the someone to dance and the accept it doesn't mean they like/dislike you one bit. Subtle difference from what I always observed here in the states. Here it seems that you might as well quit if you get rejected from the dance question..... -- _______ Subject: Re: women dancing together Cc: I don't know about anywhere else, but here in Texas (Dallas, at least), it's quite proper for women to dance together (fast dances, as you say). It's not uncommon in the least. I've been quite glad at times that this was the case - I can remember more than one time when I couldn't keep up, and was glad to be able to take a break! ------- American women ( as in US) have no problem dancing together. I've seen it in NY, NJ and almost every other area I've been in long enough to dance in. Even in central NY, which is probably one of the most conservative places I know of, women dance together. And I've never seen anyone look askance. I think you(Sophie) overstate the case a bit. Homosexuality is not assumed when two women dance together. The same cannot be said when two men dance together. But that's a different kettle of fish altogether. I was in a bar in NJ just last night and I saw that most of the women were dancing together. The guys I was with asked these women to dance, but they refused. But no one would have classified these women as gay even after that. I heard 'bitchy' but not gay. I personally could not understand why all those women would turn down my friends. They just don't know what they're missing. ------- I guess I did not express myself clearly enough. I meant North American when I said American. But since most North Americans I know are Canadian, I am really basing my observation on them rather than US-americans. I didn't I am really basing my observation on them rather than US-americans. I didn't and the Canadian women, but I did notice a very significant one between the north american women I know and the Europeans, South Americans and Africans I know, but now that I think more about it, it seems that the division is more in terms of North and South than any other way, as most non-N-Americans I know tend to be from medditeranean or latin origins. For some reason, it seems that people from warmer countries touch each other more than those from colder countries. However, it seems that in non-american cold countries where people of the same sex do not touch each other, this happens more because it is in the customs rather than because of explicit fear of homosexuality as seems to be often the case here (in canada). I am making all these remarks based on what I have noticed of the behaviour of the people around me, or what I have noticed going to other countries such as France or Spain, or from what some of my friends from different countries have told me about their countries. I have not done any "scientific" study of those phenomena. ------- > American women ( as in US) have no problem dancing >together. ...And I've never seen anyone look askance. I think >you (Sophie) overstate the case a bit. Homosexuality is not >assumed when two women dance together. I am very sorry to report that Sophie has NOT overstated the case. A very homophobic feeling has been springing up. I first noticed it with grade school and high school students taunting each other with "faggot", "lezie", etc. It seems to have spread. I am relieved to hear that the whole continent isn't affected. I had assumed it was, because my young brother and sister went to high school in southern Pennsylvania and they seemed to have the same attitudes. I will back off a bit and say that not EVERYONE would assume the women were lesbians but at the very least they would probably get a bit of "teasing" that they were. I live in Portland, Oregon and play in a local band in nightclubs here. Women dancing together is pretty common here. Although there are sometimes strange comments from the more ignorant, it usually doesn't mean they are gay. ------Subject: women dancing together Cc: |me I haven't been to too many disco scenes, but I've been to a reasonable number of high school and college dancing situations (some were quite small, so I hesitate to call them "mixers"). These ranged geographically from the New England area (the northernmost was Holyoke or Harvard, I think) to the Northern Virginia suburbs of Washington, D.C. Throughout this area, it was quite common for women to dance together. There were also a few times when college-age men and women who're "just friends" would convene in a dorm i(en masse), since no one was dating was always used to dancing WITH someone. I hope this was helpful or interesting, -------- Women dancing together in groups, as well as singly without a male partner, happens often up here in Seattle, too. No homosexual implications whatsoever. It's not common for men -- probably for the same social reasons that less hugging/kissing is seen between men than women. In fact, the premise that rock/disco dancing must always be done by couples is gradually disappearing around here. I find myself at parties frequently dancing in groups of 3 or more, without feeling like a social pioneer.