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From: rjb@akgua.UUCP (R.J. Brown [Bob])
Newsgroups: net.religion
Subject: Re: Is Satan Indistinguishable from God?
Message-ID: <571@akgua.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 16-Feb-84 13:11:39 EST
Article-I.D.: akgua.571
Posted: Thu Feb 16 13:11:39 1984
Date-Received: Fri, 17-Feb-84 03:21:34 EST
Organization: AT&T Technologies, Atlanta
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>It is not a "dumb" question, but it does assume that others believ in the
>same mythology as you do, and don't have their own mythologies.
>I am sure we have covered part of this in this group before, but I am
>jumping into the fray again. The assumption appears to be that although
>"GOD" is omnipotent and eternal (and 9 Billion other names and superlative
>adjectives) s/he loses control over the universe because of something called
>"Satan". I find this hard to swallow. Either there is one supreme being with
>these qualities, or I might as well be an atheist.

The Christian God does take resposibility for at least allowing
everything that happens. And further, in the Christian era he has
transferred some of that responsibility to the Church. For instance
Ephesians 1:21-23 shows "Christ rules there (ed - at the right hand
of the Father) above all heavenly rulers, authorities, powers, and
lords; he has a title superior to all titles of authority in this 
world and in the next.  God put all things under Christ's feet and
gave him to the church as supreme Lord over all things." ( TEV or
Good News Translation).

The implicit question of a rational skeptic is forever
"Why doesn't He do something about the problem of evil?"

And after obtaining either no answer or an usatisfying one
the rational skeptic adopts a uniformitarian approach
to the problem :

"He ain't done anything yet and by extrapolation nothing
 will be done in the future."

 Although books have been written on the subject, I propose
 a simple (or simplistic) non-original thought on the nature
 of evil. 

 There is no such thing as ontological evil. 

 Evil is the lack of something (i.e. Godliness and all that entails)
 It appears to me that no real freedom can exist for humans
 if they don't have the ability to reject a relationship
 with the Creator. And this is where evil enters the picture.
 By rejecting God's way and substituting our own way ( as
 Adam did long ago) we are diminished in stature.

 And notice I implicitly assume that I was there in Adam
 genetically

 That decrement is what I believe evil is.
 I also believe and have observed that
 the natural bent of humans as they come from the womb
 is to do wrong and go their own way.  As the father of
 three boys, I have noticed that I have never had to instruct
 them in doing wrong or in being rebellious.  

>I can't understand subdividing the godhead into a "Father", "Son" and a
>"Holy Ghost/Spirit". I also can't understand the Devil/Satan/.../Beelzebub
>subdivisions. If this supreme being is not in control of Satan, then they
>are not supreme. If they can control, but choose not to, then they must take
>responsibility for all the actions performed (at least according to my
>morality on this issue). Therefore, saying that Satan is responsible, is
>just a way of saying that "G-d" represents all Good Things, and that we are
>praying to him/her to keep only the good things coming.

>As Tim Maroney has often said, I would prefer to worship a being that can
>take responsibility for everything that happens, and who allows themselves
>to be judged. (I may be paraphrasing Tim rather loosely here -- but I am not
>a Thelemist either). Western deities don't seem to qualify.

Tons of material has been written on the Trinity which is a testimony
of sorts about its relative density.  Since I infer Avi Gross' back-
ground is Judaism, I refer here to the Name used frequently in Genesis
for God.  

Without any background in Hebrew, I will repeat some things
I have heard.

Elohim - As I understand the Name is in a plural Hebrew form for
THREE or more. El ( Supreme , Top , Ultimate)ohim

Now it fascinates me that this plural form apparently takes
a singular article and singular verb form in the Scriptures

Is this some supportive textual evidence for the Great
Three-in-One?

Are there any Hebrew scholars on the net who care to teach
us(me) about this matter?


Bob Brown {...pur-ee!inuxc!ihnp4!clyde!akgua!rjb}
AT&T Technologies, Inc.............. Norcross, Ga
(404) 447-3784 ...  Cornet 583-3784