Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site ut-sally.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!decvax!harpo!seismo!hao!cires!nbires!ut-sally!jsq From: jsq@ut-sally.UUCP (John Quarterman) Newsgroups: net.women Subject: Re: Nothing ever happens to people unless they want it to Message-ID: <901@ut-sally.UUCP> Date: Sun, 12-Feb-84 01:19:18 EST Article-I.D.: ut-sally.901 Posted: Sun Feb 12 01:19:18 1984 Date-Received: Thu, 9-Feb-84 23:25:38 EST References: <6452@watdaisy.UUCP> Organization: U. Texas CS Dept., Austin, Texas Lines: 70 This is going to have to be a bit messy, involving quotes of quotes: > and > > > is Sophie Quigley, > > is jsq. > > > The only solution is for you men out there to stop raping us! > > > > While I am in no way in favor of the opinion that most of the above > > article was criticising (see Subject:), I have to take exception to the > > line quoted above. > > > > This sort of overgeneralization purely on the basis of sex is not > > warranted. Rape is not limited to a man attacking a woman. Not to > > mention I don't recall ever personally raping anybody and have no plans > > to do so. Statements such as the one quoted above are sexism > > masquerading as feminism. > > -- > > John Quarterman, CS Dept., University of Texas, Austin, Texas > > jsq@ut-sally.ARPA, jsq@ut-sally.UUCP, {ihnp4,seismo,ctvax}!ut-sally!jsq > > You quoted me out of context. If you read the rest of my article, I was > not saying that most men rape, but that because so many do, women tend to > be suspicious of most of them, something which is not doing men who don't > rape a world of good. Since the trend is so general - yes there are women > raping men, and the raped men's anguish is as bad or worse as the raped > women's - but the great majority of rapists are men. As I don't want to > advocate women raping men, the only way to change this view that we have > that rapists are men and that men are potential rapists is for those men to > stop raping. I did not quote you out of context: the overgeneralization of your statement made it a non sequitor with the rest of your article. As I remarked (and as you quote me remarking), I read the rest of your article. Saying the great majority of rapists are men is not the same thing at all as saying that all men are rapists, which was the clear implication of your final statement in the original article. If you are going to say that all men are potential rapists, you must also say that all women are potential rapists, because some women do, after all, rape! The numbers game you are playing is no good: what percentage does it take? The only way to change the view that men are potential rapists and women are not is to look at the facts and see what they imply. > I am sorry if that sounded like I was attacking the majority of men. I > admit the wording of this sentence was strong, but I feel very strongly on > this subject as I get very angry at the tought that someone would try to > rape me just because I am a woman, and I get angrier when someone suggests > that if I did end up getting raped, it would be because I didn't really not > want it bad enough. And I resent very strongly someone accusing me of being a potential rapist just because I am a man, while excluding the rest of the human race from the same accusation. Rhetoric like that will not help your problem. But you seem to know that. > I don't mind being called sexist. Like most of us, I carry my baggage of > garbage which includes racist and sexist thoughts. I don't like it and I > want to get rid of it, but it is not always easy. I try very hard to be a > feminist and I think feminism is not about women making sexist remarks on > men. The temptation is there, though and if I succumb to it, let me know > as you did. > Sophie Quigley People who admit (even to themselves) that they are somewhat sexist or racist seem to be rarer all the time among those who are righteously free of all that (or so they think). I have no real quarrel with you: I am merely attempting to point out some confused implications in your articles. I'd imagine we can all agree that rape is bad, after all.... -- John Quarterman, CS Dept., University of Texas, Austin, Texas jsq@ut-sally.ARPA, jsq@ut-sally.UUCP, {ihnp4,seismo,ctvax}!ut-sally!jsq