Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utcsrgv.UUCP Path: utzoo!utcsrgv!dave From: dave@utcsrgv.UUCP (Dave Sherman) Newsgroups: net.news.group Subject: Proposal for net.religion.jewish Message-ID: <3215@utcsrgv.UUCP> Date: Tue, 31-Jan-84 00:29:08 EST Article-I.D.: utcsrgv.3215 Posted: Tue Jan 31 00:29:08 1984 Date-Received: Tue, 31-Jan-84 01:24:52 EST Organization: The Law Society of Upper Canada, Toronto Lines: 145 The proposal below is made and endorsed by the following netters: utcsrgv!dave Dave Sherman pyuxdd!rib Robert Block pegasus!naiman Ephrayim Nayiman pegasus!avi Avi Gross masscomp!trb Andy Tannenbaum utcsstat!rao Eli Posner utcsrgv!avi Avi Naiman zeppo!mmc Mark Chodrow lzpfc!klein Nemi Klein pegasus!lzmi!adam Adam Reed alice!adw Aaron Wyner umcp-cs!koved Larry Koved hou5e!elb Ellen Bart mhuxl!spiegel Murray Spiegel A number of us have been discussing by private mail the possibility of setting up a newsgroup for discussing issues relating to Judaism. The proposed newsgroup would be a forum for: - discussions about religious observance, ranging from practical to philosophical questions - discussions among Jews of various levels of observance and affiliated with the various "movements" (e.g., Orthodox, Conservative, Reform, unaffiliated) - explanation of Jewish laws and customs for anyone who inquires (whether Jewish or not) - discussion of other aspects of Jewish life, such as culture, traditions, language, living and working in a non-Jewish society, etc. Our proposal is to set up net.religion.jewish. Below we address in advance some of the concerns which may be raised. 1. "Why put it under net.religion?" Judaism is first and foremost a religion. Other proposals for ethnic discussion groups have included net.nlang, which we feel is inappropriate, since nlang would relate primarily to language (in the case of Judaism, Hebrew, Aramaic, Yiddish and Ladino). Net.roots.jewish is another possibility, but the topics of discussion in the proposed newsgroup would tend to be much more centered around religion than origins. 2. "But net.religion.jewish is over 14 characters!" Yes indeed. Somebody has to take the first step of becoming incompatible with older versions of news. The news statistics collected by rlgvax!ra suggest that over 85% of sites will have no problem. We are willing to put up with this newsgroup not reaching certain sites, and hope that this will encourage sites to upgrade their news. For the sake of Usenet, it will have to be done sooner or later, or more and more groups will appear with strange names and under inappropriate groups. (Incidentally, Mark Horton agrees with us on this point.) Also, net.religion.jewish *will* be distinct from net.religion, even on version 2.9, because of the '.' after "religion". The only confusion would be between net.religion.jewish and net.religion.anythingelse. 3. "Why not use net.religion?" Two reasons. First, net.religion is filled with many articles, and many of the people who will read net.religion.jewish are not interested in those articles. (E.g., the ongoing unc!tim vs. Christianity debate.) Yes, one can hit the 'n' key, but the volume of articles in net.religion suggests that this is not really the answer. Second, the plethora of other topics in net.religion creates a climate which is not conducive to discussion of practical Jewish religious matters. 4. "You can't set up a newsgroup to exclude people!" We're not doing that at all. Non-Jews will be welcome to contribute to net.religion.jewish. We would hope, however, that the group would not be used for attacks on religion or Judaism as such. Enough of that is available in net.religion. Net.motss is a home for discussion about gay issues (by gays and non-gays), and criticisms of gays for being gay are not welcome. Similarly, net.religion.jewish will be open to discussion among anyone who is interested in Judaism, and criticism of Jews for being Jews will not be welcome. 5. "I haven't seen the demand for it yet." Much of the discussion which will go into the newsgroup has taken place in net.misc, net.religion and by private mail in the past. Quite a few of us are actively interested. We presently have about 35 on a mailing list which started only recently. There are many other Jewish people on the net who are interested in the religion, whether personally observant or not, and we are confident that the group will be well used. If it is not, it can certainly go away. Discussion on things like kosher food have, in the past, been spread among net.religion, net.misc, net.followup and other even more unlikely newsgroups. Other discussion topics have included: the reason for halachic observance; Gematria; whether there is a halachic requirement to eat meat; holiness of G-d's name; Jewish holidays. Examples of articles which don't fit nicely anywhere else: inquiries for a minyan for daily prayer; request for info on kosher hotels (net.travel is much less likely to be read by the desired audience); discussion of the current conflict between Lubavitch and Satmar; discussion of problems relating to being observant at work (e.g. food, Sabbath observance, wearing a yarmulke). These topics are sufficiently different from normal net.religion fare, and of interest to such a different population, that we feel that it is not appropriate to start them in net.religion. 6. "Why not groups for Christians, Moslems, Buddhists and Hindus too?" We see no problem with this. If enough members of other faiths are interested in forming newsgroups, that is fine. We will have no objections to net.religion.islam or anything else. If you are in favour of this newsgroup, please post a short message to net.news.group or send mail to ihnp4!utcsrgv!dave (Dave Sherman). If you have any objections which have not been dealt with above, please send mail to Dave Sherman or post them. If we do not get a significant negative response by February 15, 1984, we will create the newsgroup. Signed (paths relative to ihnp4): utcsrgv!dave Dave Sherman pyuxdd!rib Robert Block pegasus!naiman Ephrayim Naiman pegasus!avi Avi Gross masscomp!trb Andy Tannenbaum utzoo!utcsstat!rao Eli Posner utcsrgv!avi Avi Naiman zeppo!mmc Mark Chodrow lzpfc!klein Nemi Klein pegasus!lzmi!adam Adam Reed alice!adw Aaron Wyner seismo!umcp-cs!koved Larry Koved hou5e!elb Ellen Bart mhuxl!spiegel Murray Spiegel -- {allegra,cornell,decvax,ihnp4,linus,utzoo}!utcsrgv!dave