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Path: utzoo!utcsrgv!dave
From: dave@utcsrgv.UUCP (Dave Sherman)
Newsgroups: net.news.group
Subject: Proposal for net.religion.jewish
Message-ID: <3215@utcsrgv.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 31-Jan-84 00:29:08 EST
Article-I.D.: utcsrgv.3215
Posted: Tue Jan 31 00:29:08 1984
Date-Received: Tue, 31-Jan-84 01:24:52 EST
Organization: The Law Society of Upper Canada, Toronto
Lines: 145

The proposal below is made and endorsed by the following netters:
	utcsrgv!dave		Dave Sherman
	pyuxdd!rib		Robert Block
	pegasus!naiman		Ephrayim Nayiman
	pegasus!avi		Avi Gross
	masscomp!trb		Andy Tannenbaum
	utcsstat!rao		Eli Posner
	utcsrgv!avi		Avi Naiman
	zeppo!mmc		Mark Chodrow
	lzpfc!klein		Nemi Klein
	pegasus!lzmi!adam	Adam Reed
	alice!adw		Aaron Wyner
	umcp-cs!koved		Larry Koved
	hou5e!elb		Ellen Bart
	mhuxl!spiegel		Murray Spiegel


A number of us have been discussing by private mail the possibility
of setting up a newsgroup for discussing issues relating to Judaism.
The proposed newsgroup would be a forum for:
	- discussions about religious observance, ranging from
	  practical to philosophical questions
	- discussions among Jews of various levels of observance
	  and affiliated with the various "movements"
	  (e.g., Orthodox, Conservative, Reform, unaffiliated)
	- explanation of Jewish laws and customs for anyone who
	  inquires (whether Jewish or not)
	- discussion of other aspects of Jewish life, such as
	  culture, traditions, language, living and working in a
	  non-Jewish society, etc.

Our proposal is to set up net.religion.jewish. Below we address in
advance some of the concerns which may be raised.

1. "Why put it under net.religion?"

Judaism is first and foremost a religion. Other proposals for ethnic
discussion groups have included net.nlang, which we feel is inappropriate,
since nlang would relate primarily to language (in the case of Judaism,
Hebrew, Aramaic, Yiddish and Ladino). Net.roots.jewish is another possibility,
but the topics of discussion in the proposed newsgroup would tend to be
much more centered around religion than origins.

2. "But net.religion.jewish is over 14 characters!"

Yes indeed. Somebody has to take the first step of becoming
incompatible with older versions of news. The news statistics
collected by rlgvax!ra suggest that over 85% of sites will have
no problem. We are willing to put up with this newsgroup not reaching
certain sites, and hope that this will encourage sites to upgrade
their news. For the sake of Usenet, it will have to be done sooner
or later, or more and more groups will appear with strange names
and under inappropriate groups. (Incidentally, Mark Horton agrees with
us on this point.)

Also, net.religion.jewish *will* be distinct from net.religion, even
on version 2.9, because of the '.' after "religion". The only confusion
would be between net.religion.jewish and net.religion.anythingelse.

3. "Why not use net.religion?"

Two reasons. First, net.religion is filled with many articles, and
many of the people who will read net.religion.jewish are not interested
in those articles. (E.g., the ongoing unc!tim vs. Christianity debate.)
Yes, one can hit the 'n' key, but the volume of articles in net.religion
suggests that this is not really the answer.
 
Second, the plethora of other topics in net.religion creates a climate
which is not conducive to discussion of practical Jewish religious
matters.

4. "You can't set up a newsgroup to exclude people!"

We're not doing that at all. Non-Jews will be welcome to contribute
to net.religion.jewish. We would hope, however, that the group would
not be used for attacks on religion or Judaism as such. Enough of
that is available in net.religion. Net.motss is a home for
discussion about gay issues (by gays and non-gays), and
criticisms of gays for being gay are not welcome. Similarly,
net.religion.jewish will be open to discussion among anyone who
is interested in Judaism, and criticism of Jews for being Jews
will not be welcome.

5. "I haven't seen the demand for it yet."

Much of the discussion which will go into the newsgroup has taken
place in net.misc, net.religion and by private mail in the past.
Quite a few of us are actively interested. We presently have about
35 on a mailing list which started only recently. There are many
other Jewish people on the net who are interested in the
religion, whether personally observant or not, and we are confident
that the group will be well used. If it is not, it can certainly
go away.

Discussion on things like kosher food have, in the past, been
spread among net.religion, net.misc, net.followup and other even
more unlikely newsgroups. Other discussion topics have included:
the reason for halachic observance; Gematria; whether there is
a halachic requirement to eat meat; holiness of G-d's name; Jewish
holidays.

Examples of articles which don't fit nicely anywhere else: inquiries
for a minyan for daily prayer; request for info on kosher hotels
(net.travel is much less likely to be read by the desired audience);
discussion of the current conflict between Lubavitch and Satmar;
discussion of problems relating to being observant at work (e.g. food,
Sabbath observance, wearing a yarmulke). These topics are
sufficiently different from normal net.religion fare, and of
interest to such a different population, that we feel that it is not
appropriate to start them in net.religion.

6. "Why not groups for Christians, Moslems, Buddhists and Hindus too?"

We see no problem with this. If enough members of other faiths are
interested in forming newsgroups, that is fine. We will have no
objections to net.religion.islam or anything else.



If you are in favour of this newsgroup, please post a short message
to net.news.group or send mail to ihnp4!utcsrgv!dave (Dave Sherman).
If you have any objections which have not been dealt with above, please
send mail to Dave Sherman or post them.

If we do not get a significant negative response by February 15, 1984,
we will create the newsgroup.

Signed (paths relative to ihnp4):
	utcsrgv!dave		Dave Sherman
	pyuxdd!rib		Robert Block
	pegasus!naiman		Ephrayim Naiman
	pegasus!avi		Avi Gross
	masscomp!trb		Andy Tannenbaum
	utzoo!utcsstat!rao	Eli Posner
	utcsrgv!avi		Avi Naiman
	zeppo!mmc		Mark Chodrow
	lzpfc!klein		Nemi Klein
	pegasus!lzmi!adam	Adam Reed
	alice!adw		Aaron Wyner
	seismo!umcp-cs!koved	Larry Koved
	hou5e!elb		Ellen Bart
	mhuxl!spiegel		Murray Spiegel

-- 
 {allegra,cornell,decvax,ihnp4,linus,utzoo}!utcsrgv!dave