From: utzoo!decvax!ucbvax!CAD:tektronix!bobb
Newsgroups: net.religion
Title: Testing Christianity
Article-I.D.: tektronix.1017
Posted: Sun Mar 13 21:00:59 1983
Received: Fri Mar 18 01:36:25 1983

My knowledge of how to use the mail system being incomplete, I have been trying
for some time without success to reply to some mail I received. However, I think
that the query and my reply would be of general interest, so I will post them.

     Okay, I'll bite. What is the test for your claim? The Bible
     is the claim, not evidence for it. Individual salvific
     experiences are not evidence unless it can be shown that
     they differ in quality and "reality" from those of other
     religions. Miracles are not evidence unless the circumstances
     can be independently verified by scientific method.

     In short, on what basis do you claim that Christianity is
     different from any other religion? I would like to know,
     since I have never heard any evidence other than that above,
     which is obviously invalid.

My apologies to the author of the above message for my inability to get a prompt
personal reply to him. My reply is:

     The basic difference between Christianity and other religions is that
     the Christian God is a living God who is personally involved with each
     individual. No other religion can make this claim.

     The test for the claim is that the results in an individual's life are 
     as stated. The basic claim is a familiar verse "For God so loved the 
     world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in
     him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) As I
     stated in one of my articles, we are all guilty of breaking God's law: 
     "And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and
     men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil." 
     (John 3:19) Trust in Christ removes the penalty: "There is therefore no
     condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the
     flesh, but after the Spirit." (Romans 8:1)

     The claim is not only forgiveness but also a new ability. The position
     of man is accurately described by Paul: "for what I would, that do I
     not; but what I hate, that do I."  (Romans 7:15) But, "Therefore, if
     any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away;
     behold all things are become new." (2 Corinthians 5:17)

     Since the claim is an individual claim, the test must be an individual
     test.  While I agree that 'Individual salvific experiences are not
     evidence unless it can be shown that they differ in quality and 
     "reality" from those of other religions,' I believe that they do so
     differ. "I know God is alive; I talked to him today" is the Christian's
     experience.

     I was brought up in a Christian environment, so I don't have a dramatic
     conversion story to tell. However, I have had, and know others who have 
     had, experiences that convince me that God is truly alive. I believe that
     these experiences cannot be duplicated by other religions. If you wish to
     disregard such experiences and believe that those who have them are lying 
     or have been fooled, then of course you may.  But I note with interest
     that in most of life (including on the UNIX net), personal experiences
     are requested and valued as an aid in forming opinions. Yet experiences
     with Christianity are often discounted as valueless.

     The experiences of others can be no more than aids. The test must be a
     personal one. "Seek and ye shall find." (Matthew 7:7) The way for an
     individual to test this claim is to seek and discover whether or not
     he finds. (I must add, however, that the "seeking" must not be seeking
     after merely an experience or a proof that God exists. It must be based
     on a desire to find God's plan and accept the forgiveness, power, and 
     change it offers.) Until you have individually tested God, you will 
     never know that He is real. I urge you to do this.

     In addition to its claims, the Bible contains statments which can be
     tested to determine whether or not they are true. Some of the strongest
     objective evidence is fulfilled prophecy concerning Israel.
     The theme of a regathered Israel in the latter days runs throughout the
     Old Testament.  For many years Christians who believed this were laughed 
     at. Today we see the reality in the headlines. Consider Ezekiel's
     prophecy of a  ". . .land that is brought back from the sword, and is
     gathered out of many people, . . .the mountains of Israel, which have 
     been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations. . . ." 
     (Ezekiel 38:8). This is a good description of the present nation of 
     Israel. The passage tells of a future attack upon Israel by "Gog, the
     land of Magog, the chief prince of Mesech and Tubal." (Ezekiel 38:2) 
     These names have long been identified with tribes that settled in Russia, 
     which lies to the north of Israel and is her foe today. There are many
     more such prophecies.

       Bob Bales
       Tektronix